Scotland YES or NO

A Nation Divided

Whatever the outcome in Scotland on the 18 September, one side is going to be unhappy.

Whether Yes or No I am concerned as I have family who live In Scotland.

I have looked at what happened in Ireland with their South and North, and all the troubles that have gone on there. Is this likely to happen in Scotland, heaven forbid !!!

I am not politically minded, but find it all worrying for the people. I was on holiday recently up there visiting my family, they by the way are not Scottish. We spoke to people in the area, all were saying No. One man said he was blaming the immigrants who seem to want to say Yes.

A young woman we spoke to said she was undecided, but her mother and father were of the opposite opinion.

Will this cause disruption and division even in families.

Mr Alex Salmond may well go down in history as the person who divided a Nation.

And listening to the jeering from the potential yes voters during the debate last night with the 16/17 year olds, and the lack of jeering from the potential no voters was interesting.

Does Nicola Sturgeon always try to shout everyone else down? I felt like shouting at the chairperson 'take charge, shut that woman up when other people are trying to speak. Everyone is entitled to express their views'.

That is very interesting, dodie considering that when jane10 has made similar posts she has been told she must be wrong, that the yessers and noers are all great friends.

I live in Scotland and will definitely be voting "no" on Thursday. I was born in England, lived in Wales and am married to a Welshman. My two children were born in Scotland. All four of us consider ourselves British. My husband and I have lived in Scotland for over 40 years, far longer than in any other part of the UK. I dislike nationalism because it can be so divisive. My husband and I saw what happened when the Welsh nationalists became so active in Wales.

When I first arrived in Scotland in 1973 I was immediately aware of the antipathy towards the English. Not to me personally but to the English in general. It was so endemic in Scotland that I honestly don't think most Scots realised it was racist. When my daughter was about 10 she actually told her teacher that she thought a comment she had just made about the English was racist. The teacher replied that it didn't count as racist because the English said the same thing about the Scots. My children spent every school holiday with either their Welsh or English grandparents and played with local children. They never came across critical remarks about the Scots.

Sadly I suspect this would no longer be the case today. The Scottish Nationalists in general, and Alex Salmond in particular, have stirred up this antipathy to the extent that there is now real hatred on both sides. It is very frightening. When you walk round the streets of Edinburgh, where I live, you will see virtually no "no" stickers on windows, and yet the polls show that Better Together is in the lead. People who are voting no are too scared to speak out or make their views known, unless they know they are with fellow no supporters. They are frightened to put stickers in their windows in case they get a brick put through. Yes, really. Several friends have had to pretend to be yes supporters in social situations to avoid getting into heated arguments. Perhaps you think they are cowards. But we will all have to live with each other after the vote. And next door to our English neighbours. Whatever way the vote goes on Thursday, and I fervently hope it is a no, it is going to take many years to repair the damage this campaign has done.

The referandum was authorised by the [[ www.legislation.gov.uk/asp/2013/14/contents Scottish Independence Referendum Act 2013]] It does not, in itself split the Uk, it clarifies what the people living in Scotland would like to happen.

Should the referendum bring in a "Yes" vote, the Bill/Act making it law will be debated and enacted by the Uk Government at Westminster.

What is going on? Does the Act of Union allow any member to opt out as & when they choose to? It seems to me that Alex Salmond got the bit between his teeth & lost touch with reality. He seems to be rolling along blinded by his own perceived popularity. He has made no concrete plans. What are the 'Yes' campaigners actually voting for? Allowing votes on this to 16 year olds who have little perspective of its significance is crazy, especially when Scots living outside Scotland have no say.
We are united - we should all have a vote. How dare Salmond come up with half-baked ideas & threaten what has been a strong union with so many achievements to its credit ? Shame on him!

It might even push them toward making the other parts of the UK more equal to the SE. new thread on decentralisation proposal by thinktank

That would be an advantage to the SouthEast too - not so many people trying to crowd in there where the prosperity is, driving up house prices and putting pressure on services

I agree with all you say DurhamJen.
As I've written elsewhere, although it will/would be a sad day if they break away, if I was a Scot I would definitely vote Yes. Scotland overall is more truly socialist than England has been at any time, and they're just out of tune with the average English mindset. Especially SE England.
My roots are in Northumberland, especially the Borders and the mining towns.
But if the Yes voters win, I hope that will motivate the English to re-think what we really stand for. Develop some decent principles to drag ourselves out of the mire that Thatcher left behind.

Many thanks, dj. I'll have to postpone the pleasure of looking at the stuff until tonight, as I'm coming under increasing scrutiny for time-wasting at the moment. No peace for the wicked!

Papaoscar, something for you to read while I am out visiting my mother in law, who will not have heard anything about the TTIP or the elections.
This is why Scotland needs out.

www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2014/09/12/comment-outrage-as-eu-blocks-democratic-challenge-to-us-trad

Unfortunately, papaoscar, they are talking about doing the reverse, i.e. cancelling the elections next year because there will be a constitutional crisis.

This is information that is available to all MPs on their website, about the difference that having no Scottish MPs would have made to the vote since 1997. See what you think.

https://www.mysociety.org/2014/09/10/parliament-without-scottish-mps-how-would-it-have-looked-different-since-1997/

For the lack of good statesmenship on both sides this whole thing is now turning potentially very nasty, encouraged by the ever-present sensation-seeking media, and confused by the scattergun use of selective and slanted statistics. So for the sake of everything - both in Scotland and in the UK - I would now postpone the referendum and bring forward the date of the UK election. This would enable all parties to draw breath, consider their positions and agree reasonable and workable arrangements for the future, before putting such plans to all the voters of these precious Isles. The way things are going, ancient wounds are being ripped open on both sides and made worse by incompetent, ego-driven and sectarian-minded politicians and community leaders. But what do I know....

I agree, just passing on one of those messages doing the rounds.

If I had a vote that would make me more determined to vote yes.

If Scotland gains its independence in the forthcoming referendum, the
remainder of the United Kingdom will be known as the
"Former United Kingdom" .....or FUK.

In a bid to discourage the Scots from voting 'yes' in the referendum,
the Government has now begun to campaign with the slogan

"Vote NO, for FUK's sake"

They feel the Scottish voters will be able to relate to this.

What do you mean by Scotland is a large chunk of the UK, bags?
It has a population of 5 million in an area of 78 thousand square kilometres.
England has a population of 53+million in an area of 130 thousand square kilometres.
So it's a large chunk in terms of area, but not in population.

Which other countries do you do business with, gillybob? Do you have problems with them?

Alex Salmond has been thinking about this for decades, gillybob. It's just that the government has just caught up with him.
Good quote on radio Newcastle at the moment. "When a marriage comes to an end, you don't stay together for the sake of the CD collection."

It would certainly seem that way HollyDaze but somehow it just seems wrong to split the country up without (it seems) thinking about the full consequences of doing so.

As I have mentioned before I have a small business and doing business with an independent Scotland worries me, so I can totally understand large corporations being very touchy about the idea. It seems that AS and his pals have really not thought this through at all.

But complaining got the English nowhere so, rather than fighting a yes vote, it would seem (from an outside and unaffected position) that a yes vote would be in England's favour.

Scotland is quite a large chunk of the UK. There were (and are) actually quite a lot of complaints about England not getting a devolved government at the same time as Scotland and Wales, in part because MPs from Scotland who sit at Westminster get to vote on matters that don't affect Scotland, whereas English MPs did not have that 'privilege' on similar Scottish matters.

Quite so gillybob - from what I have read and heard, there is a fair bit of resentment over it all which probably explains some of the apathy of the English over the whole debate.

Yes Hollydaze and what more concessions do they have up their sleeve in return for a No vote? Retirement on full pay at 45 perhaps? I cannot understand why one part of the UK should be allowed freebies or enhanced benefits that the rest of us cannot enjoy. Having said that how long will Scotland be able to afford those luxuries if/when they become independent is anyone's guess.

papaoscar

Hollydaze, the UK is a democracy representing all of its people. A referendum vote from any part of the UK (Be it Cornwall or Cardiff) on any issue does not, and cannot, provide a mandate for change on the whole of the UK, without the consent of the whole of the UK.

Many decisions have been taken in Scotland and Wales that were not offered to the English and I don't recall many people complaining so vehemently about that (prescriptions, university fees, care of the elderly).

I don't understand how Scotland becoming totally independant will have such a profound effect on the UK.

Mr UKIP has just come out for a federation on Radio Four.

Most iimpressed with the calibre of the Scottish young people in the Great Debate last night. Very pertinent questions very well put. A great credit to Scotland. Some very fierce exchanges between the ladies, Sturgeon and Davidson, and George Galloway also in typically combative style. The Chairman almost washed away by the tsunami of rhetoric, poor soul, and the Green representative left marooned on the sideline. A fine, huge venue in Glasgow preparing to welcome Lady GaGa next. Well done!

I went there last year when my son was running the Edinburgh Marathon. We quite liked it, because it was different.
Just shows how different we all are.

If Scotland votes yes it might not be long before we have a Northern Assembly in York.