Scotland YES or NO

I do hope that if there is a yes vote Scotland will have the Utopia they wish for.
Like Niggly I rather think they'll discover that Brussels has as much say in how their country is run as Westminster - I suppose they will still be in the European Union. So much is up in the air.

Well said almc2001

Well, I suppose it is an opportunity, but I certainly wouldn't gambol my grandchildrens future on such uncertainty's. It could be disastrous and the problem is that there will be no going back. As far as I can see, to survive Scotland will run by Brussels, so you go from one dependent situation to another, not much independence there I would have thought.

Good post, almc2001.

I think the feeling of anti-Englishness that some people feel comes directly from such expressions as "Scotland's wealth" and "Scotland's resources". They suggest an unwillingness to pool resources and wealth with other people who live on the same islands and who share a great deal of history.

I do understand that some Scots feel that England (though not, presumably, Wales and Northern Ireland) has not pooled resources with them, but that is debatable. Just saying I find it easy to imagine where the anti-English sentiment, imagined or otherwise, comes from.

I have just come across this thread and have been reading through it for the past hour or two. I too am voting yes but not because of anti English feeling. In fact it is quite disturbing that some feel that Scottish voters are voting yes for this very reason.

I am voting yes because I believe that it is an opportunity to make Scotland a better place to live and to have a say in how Scotland's wealth and resources ae used to the benefit of society as a whole. We will have the power to have a say on how to grow our economy and create more jobs.

It is not about Alex Salmond and we will have an opportunity to vote him out at the next election. It is about democracy for the people who live in Scotland and that means always getting the governments we vote for.

If you are afraid that it will all be different, you are right but that does not mean that it will all be bad. Nobody knows the future on either side. This is an opportunity of a generation. To miss out because of apathy or fear would be a shame.

I have lived in Scotland for half of my adult life, in chunks. I wasn't born in Scotland but two of my children were and have a Scottish father. I have never felt unwelcome in Scotland.

Mind you, I've never felt unwelcome anywhere.

I hope the NOs swing the vote but if they don't, so be it. That's democracy. The next few years will be interesting whatever the result of the referendum.

It appeared I had lost my first post hence, the second one.

I think my post was perfectly clear Gilly

I am sure there are people not welcomed here regardless of their nationality but not because they are English in my experience.

If, as you express, English people are not welcome here, why are there so very many happily settled here?

I think my post was perfectly clear Gilly

I'm sure there are people who are not welcome regardless of their nationality but I do know English people happily living here who will be voting yes or alternatively, voting no.

Well I can't stand bagpipe music drone so would be comparable Aka

Not sure what you mean Agus having been in Scotland a couple of times (for work) in the last few weeks I get the impression that the English are not at all welcome and that we are "taking Scottish jobs".

I agree with you nigglynellie there will be repercussions if there is a NO vote. I don't think the fanatics will take it well.

Gransnet's sister site Mumsnet is hosting a live debate between Alex Salmond and Alastair Darling on Wednesday 10th at 1.45pm. You do not have to be a Mumsnet member to take part.

Like you gillybob, at the beginning of all this I too hoped for a NO vote as I thought the it would be awful to break up one, if not THE most successful union of two/four nations in the world. We now live in such a dangerous and financially uncertain world that the UK collectively in a comforting sort of way seemed a bit of a bulwark against outside danger, but over the weeks particularly the last two, I too am beginning to hope for a yes vote, if, for no other reason to stop all the venom the anti English brigade are spawning. if the vote is No, I can imagine rioting in the streets as I can't imagine the YES brigade taking it well! Better Scotland goes if that's what they want. Yes Ed Milliband is advocating border controls as when Scotland joins the EU, as we are assured they will be, as one of the EU requirements is agreeing to the Shengen Agreement which is the free movement of people within the EU. Britain negotiated an opt out from this during the Maastricht agreement, so we will be able to set up border controls on the English side of the border after Scottish independence without any problems from Scotland or the EU. The fear is that people will try to enter the UK illegally through Scotland to gain access to England, and obviously this has to be addressed.
Not sure that Ed Milliband is unelectable though, time will tell! As for passports, I guess you will need that too to enter Scotland.

I hardly think the many English people happily living in Scotland, and those who are voting Yes, are doing so because they are anti English

What do you imagine would happen Gilly ..death by bagpipe music?

Fleeing English into Scotland? I don't think so Aka. I wouldn't want to be English and working in Scotland in the event of a YES vote though.

If at the beginning of the year anyone had asked me I would have said that I hoped for a NO vote as I did not want Scotland to leave the UK. More recently however I am changing my mind and almost beginning to hope that the vote is YES. This way the anti-English will be happy and it will hopefully put an end to it all. Sometimes you have to be very careful what you wish for. Having said all that, like you nigglynellie I really couldn't give a hoot what the end vote is as it won't effect me much. Was it Ed Milliband who recently mentioned the need for passport control and a proper border? might have to reconsider our caravanning trips for 2015.

Labour under Ed Milliband is unelectable. Not keen on Cameron either and Nick Clegg has ensured the Lib Dems will get their worst poll ever.
Rather than disillusioned Scots heading south I predict they'll have to defend their border against fleeing English!

I have not been 'fed' anything, any more than you have! and to be absolutely honest I personally couldn't care less what Scotland does as it won't affect me or my family whatsoever. I think you are the misinformed one, and why you keep bizarrely going on about Boris and Farage is beyond me when lets face it we will almost certainly get a labour government in 2015 and I don't see them featuring in that! but you are right, after this election losing Scotland will mean that we in England will be spared a future government full of Scottish MP's voting on English matters which frankly have nothing to do with them, a facility which is not reciprocated, so from that point of view we're better apart, the sooner the better.

Niggly you have been fed so much misinformation and are still quoting opinions which have been long since been proved wrong. However I hope that if the next election brings the solution you want you'll be very happy with Farage and Boris and co.

I just hope that I'm in no way involved in such a scenario - but then I have an alternative!

Marelli,I am a Scot living in Scotland and I will also be voting yes.

That's the problem with politicians, what they say today isn't what they do tomorrow! uncertainty is the name of the game Terms and conditions? who knows what they will be, never mind the small problem of no central bank, which as I understand it is vital for EU membership. Incidentally Scotland has not been an EU member for 40 years, nor has England Wales or Northern Ireland, the UK collectively has, a point that has not been lost on Spain and other reluctant nations!

Well done Granny23 for exposing more misinformation from the NO camp. It worries me that they claim the moral high ground whereas in truth what they don't know they make up.

Marelli I am overjoyed to find that you have come down on the right left side of the fence

As to the article from the Sunday Times - another London centric analysis. If the chap had gone to any of the pubs around here he would have found a plethora of articulate YES supporting punters not the one single Conservative that he spoke to. The allegation that the SNP is a right wing party is ludicrous. Alex Salmond was flung out of the Party years ago for being too far to the LEFT. Since then the Party has moved steadily leftward and is now accepted as being to the left of Scottish Labour.
Nigglynellie I am afraid that ALL your arguments have been debunked over and over. The official position of the EU is that Scotland will be a 'special case' because all Scottish citizens are currently also EU citizens and mainly wish to remain so. No part of the EU has ever been thrown out against their wishes. (It might also have something to do with an iScotland having the largest fishing grounds and most oil of any EU state. It is now accepted by unbiased commentators (e.g. the Financial Times) that Scotland has contributed more to the UK coffers than it has had back for the past 30 years. Everyone knows that due to better technology there is more oil still to come from the North Sea and billions of barrels more in the fields yet to be developed to the west, although the NO camp try very hard to hide this information.

The NO folk thought that with all the MSM on their side they could fool all the people but they did not take account of the modern power of the internet where all sides of the argument can be explored nor the traditional Public Meetings, street stalls, and door to door canvassing.

BTW: Jim Murphy, one of the most obnoxious career politicians in the UK, who is, of course, fighting to preserve his job and position, was hit by ONE egg. There have been no further incidents of egging, nor anything worse and it is widely reported that the 'assailant' who has been arrested is not a YES activist.

I don't think that we in England really mind one way or the other what Scotland decides to do as it won't particularly affect us. We will be sad to see you go, but if that's what you want all we can do is wish you well. However, I do think that Alec Salmond has led you all by the nose. Free XY and Z was a clever move as no doubt Scotland will have an election fairly soon after independence and with a bit of luck, from his point of view it will return a different party to government who will have to pick up the realism of independence and not just the romantic nationalistic pipe dream. - I don't envy them!!