Is it time to make state education secular?

Most comprehensive have been pretty secular for years now - teaching about all the different world religions. Many, probably most, no longer include an act of worship in assemblies. That's fine. I've nothing against that. But leave the C of E, and the Catholic primary schools alone. So long as they get good Ofsted reports, why object to the Christianity element?

No C of E school bashing here that I've seen. I don't think any of us said that C of E schools are bad at all- but that having different schools for different children, based on faith, is divisive at best, and very difficult to monitor. The curriculum is one thing- what goes behind closed class room doors is very different. I think, if I've read the thread rightly, that many say that religion is a private matter- and should remain private and personal, and taught at home for those who want to, or in classes outside school, for those who want to. That is not 'bashing' any schools at all.

Secular schools? Yes.

Sad the amount of C of E school bashing which is going on. Education for all in this country was started by the C of E and 'Noncomformist' education boards. Before that you had to be rich and preferably male to be educated at all.
Having worked in both C of E and secular schools, my experience has been that C of E schools promote an ethos and morality which should be acceptable to most people. I cannot speak for other types of faith school, but suspect that the scourge of OFSTED would be upon them if they deviated too far.
If faith schools, especially Christian ones are so bad, why are they almost always over subscribed?
People who worry about an Islamist 'takeover' but think that this can be prevented by abolishing Christian schools among others are in danger of throwing the Christian baby out with the faith school bath water .

She makes the important point that all schools should be judged on the same basis by OFSTED. And they are not - faith schools are treated with kid gloves in some respect, it would seem. So this week we may see the Birmingham stage funded schools, that just happen to be in areas of high Muslim population, criticised for things that would be judged as a good thing, if they were state funded faith based comprehensives instead of other state funded.
I agree, other countries are right in keeping religion away from the state education system.

jinglefrocks the writer is pointing out that religious schools present all sorts of problems in relation to providing a wide education that will equip pupils for the modern world.

There are a number of issues that religious schools have - some peculiar to their particular religion and some that other religions share. As the article mentioned, these include:

Preventing access to modern technology;

Removing questions regarding evolution from exam papers;

An absence of debate regarding gender issues, a reluctance to provide sex education - particularly regarding homosexuality - and to give unbiased information regarding abortion.

Why can't all schools teach pupils about a variety of religions without singling out one religion as being the "right" one and angling the education to that particular view? There is no reason why children of various religious backgrounds cannot attend their places of worship and receive guidance from their own families.

It is very difficult to monitor how these religious schools are being run and I feel it would be much better, particularly in relation to social cohesion, if children had the opportunity to mix freely with those of different, or no, faiths.

mcem I think the significance of the kilt-wearing Muslim is that the vast majority of Asians, and especially those that were born here, do want to be fully integrated and accepted into this country, and abhor extremism as much as most of the 'White British' do.

Nobody wants to 'get rid' of Christianism. But education, Government and the Judicial service should all be independent of any religion. It would be much much easier to combat extremism if there were no religious schools- be they Christian Creationists, or Muslims.

I lived and taught in one of the most multicultural cities in the UK, and the Indian children I taught, be they Hindus, Muslims or Seikhs, nor their parents- showed any signs of extremism or pushing for a separate education.

Sorry, mcem, I didn't mean to suggest that things may now be different in that particular school - just that there does seem to have been a significant increase in extremist influence in certain parts of the UK (and thus in schools) in recent years.

I'm talking about 6 years ago. Still in touch with staff at the old school and am aware of the local community. Rampant extremism simply is not an issue here.
How significant would you find it that an ex-pupil, a member of a prominent local muslim family, chose to wear the kilt when he graduated in medicine from St Andrews recently? Why are people so desperate to see enormous problems when we are actually dealing with a minority, while the vast majority of muslims in Scotland are conscientious and (forgive the phrase) hard-working families?
Your community, admittedly, may be very different but I speak as I find.

Perhaps things have changed since those days, mcem? The Muslim voice is much more confident and assertive now.

The same could be said of SOME advocates of the RC faith. Scotland doesn't have the same problem, with no established church power ( apart from C of E bishops having unjustifiable powers in Westminster!) However RC schools do exist here but without the clout of the voluntary aided sector schools in England.
I worked for many years in a school with a significant muslim minority but was never aware of extremist influences.

mcem on the contrary, Muslims, particularly extremists, believe their faith has a lot of value. And they would probably be very glad to become the over-riding religion of this country. I prefer Christianity.

What Ariadne, mcem and Mishap said! Secular education and politics, and keep royalty for traditions, tourist attractions and festivals, not parliament.

More's the pity! But disestablishing the Church of Englan would be a start. And faith schools would need to be independent and fee paying, or some sort of charitable base.

Of course children should learn about other faiths - no one faith should ever be promoted over another. That's where the trouble starts! When there is no respect for the beliefs of others.

When I was assessing trainee teachers I saw some very, very impressive work on different faiths.

I don't believe that any government would ever dare to attempt to ban faith schools.

As a parent, a grandparent, a practising Christian and a retired teacher I feel strongly that schools should be secular and that the Church of England should no longer have the power and influence that it currently enjoys. References to a vacuum imply that no opinion other than that of the established church has any value.

Yes - I do think that state-funded schools should be secular. But I think children should learn about all faiths in school. And, if their families adhere to a particular faith, then that is where they will learn about it in practice.

This will not get rid of christianity or indeed any other religion.

Get rid of Christianity in this country and what will you let in?

But do you judge them to be right? The muslim religion is very strong amongst its followers. And nature abhors a vacuum.

Yes! (Answer to OP)

It is more than time to make education,and politics, secular, and to remove to ridiculous status of the CofE in parliament. There is no room for any belief system to be involved in any public arena, althoughe very one has the right to express their beliefs. To promulgate any one belief over another doesn't make sense, since they all think they are right.

You really think a school where a child is brought up in the Christian faith is as bad as a school where they are turned into muslim extremists?

The "with the obvious exception of Prince Charles" in the second paragraph suggested the level of the mentality of the writer of the article, for me.

Silly article, but they've got to fill newspapers with something.

Totally agree.