The young men going to Syria and Iraq to fight with Isis

I just thought you had some special source of information that was forming your opinion on muslim clerics Holydaze? But in fact it is TerriBull isn't it. I sometimes get confused by your copying and pasting.

JessM - is it compulsory to visit mosques to be able to see that they aren't policing their own?

How many have you Jess? (I personally have never been in one in my life) #priceoffish

How many mosques have you visited lately Hollydaze ?

It would appear sometimes that some muslim clerics do very little to head off any potential radicalisation and I can't help thinking they are often complicit in what goes on at their mosques.

I'm inclined to agree with that.

and, to be honest, tht's all I sodding care about.

I don't understand why people make an analogy between those who fought in the Spanish Civil War and those going to fight in Syria and Iraq. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone who returned to Britain from Spain in the 1930s wanted to wage war here.

I also don't understand why mosques allow radical Imams who encourage violent acts to preach sermons. I heard someone say that a radical preacher slipped under the net at the Cardiff mosque where one of these young men was radicalised, surely it's the responsibility of the resident Imam at any mosque to censor their guest speakers who seek to preach violence and hatred. It would appear sometimes that some muslim clerics do very little to head off any potential radicalisation and I can't help thinking they are often complicit in what goes on at their mosques. Would it be tolerated if catholic or C of E priests, taking N Ireland out of the equation, whipped up sectarian violence or dissent in this country?

Riverwalk " these misguided young men" could become a danger to my children and grandchildren and, to be honest, tht's all I sodding care about.

JessM I think something along the lines I am saying will happen. No matter how many obstacles you try to think up to put in the way of it.

The footage shows the man believed to be Raqib saying: "Are you willing to sacrifice the fat job you've got, the big car you've got, the family you have?" "Are you willing to sacrifice this for the sake of Allah? Definitely! If you sacrifice something for Allah, Allah will give you 700 times more than this."

Sounds a lot like greed to me.

Nasser Muthana and Reyaad Khan, both from Cardiff, have previously been named as appearing in the 13-minute video, There Is No Life Without Jihad.

If they feel there is no life without Jihad, why would they want to come back?

I believe some go and realise their mistake but then are prevented from returning by the terrorists. Naive kids who get taken in. Perhaps the threat of becoming stateless would make them think twice about going.

I agree with Jingle. Anyone who becomes a threat by taking up arms, especially if they become a public face, shouldn't be allowed back or at least imprisoned on entry. To say we shouldn't do so because it would be too difficult doesn't wash. They just go on the list with drug runners, etc. We need to tighten our borders.

It's ironic .... we want to arrest and gaol these misguided young men who are trying to overthrow the Syrian regime, but just a few months ago our government wanted to send another group of young men, British Armed Forces, to do just that.

Much is made of the fact that these fighters don't know which side they're on and their understanding of the politics of the region is minimal .... rather like William Hague when he was asked just which group the West should provide assistance to.

Strange game politics

Well yes jingle if the immigration authorities have watched the videos, accurately identified the name and birth date of those on the videos (remember the names might be similar - how many Ali Muhammeds are there... ) and have the alert on a computer.
Currently UK citizen's passports do not get computer checked at entry unless you go through an automatic desk. And I think the software is just authenticated that the photo matches the face.
And they are not all going to be in videos are they?

JessM videos like this might give them a clue

I feel very sorry for the parents of these young people who are horrified by what their children have got themselves into.

It reminds me of all those pseudo religious cults that were quite prevalent in the 1960s and 1970s, where young people got "brainwashed" into joining all sorts of odd groups to the great distress of their families.

Good grief. How many innocent tourists coming back from Turkey would end up in prison? Are they going to pull over just the asian looking ones or the balck ones as well (remember muslim converts can be all ethnicities) How are the immigration officials supposed to know what they have been doing while they are out of the country?

They would be ok if they flew into our local airport ( Southend) we have just had a case where a woman flew out on her Daughters passport ( her D is mixed race) This was only picked up when she wanted to return from Spain.

On the radio this morning they said that anyone who picks up a rifle anywhere in the world, would be classed as a terrorist.

I am talking about the ones who have identified themselves on the i-net, or been outed by other people.

They should, at least, be imprisoned as soon as they set foot back on British soil.

It's not that simple jingle.
They may well be flying to (and from, if they are lucky) Turkey or Cyprus - massive holiday destinations. Can you imagine how easy it would be for immigration at Luton on a Sunday evening with multiple flights coming in from that neck of the woods to vet all the men with dark hair and a deep tan?
Also they may not be terrorists. They could be well-meaning young men who wanted to fight the horrible President Assad in Syria.
They might be doctors or aid workers who have been working in refugee camps. Remember there are now millions of refugees out there.
If you start detaining and interrogating people like that you run the risk of turning them against the British state.

I feel so sorry for the parents in Cardiff - they must be beside themselves.

There was certainly a religious dimension to the Spanish Civil War. "Mainstream" Catholics supported Franco and it was often cited as a "holy war".

But those who went to Spain were fighting a political system there; as I understand it, those who have publicised themselves as going to Iraq and Syria are going in the name of a religion to which they think ALL people (including us) from every country should subscribe, not just the countries to which they have been.

British men went to Spain to fight in the Spanish Civil War. They weren't denied re-entry to Britain on their return.

If they are British citizens they have to be let back in.
They could only be detained if they were suspected of criminal activity in this country, surely?

I think that the plan is to 'detain them at customs' or words to that effect. Mind you that's easier said than done.

He dropped out of his medical studies. (Not that that's got anything to do with it)

Agree with that jings, although perhaps not about the parents, the example being the parents whose son had been studying medicine. None of us really know what influences our children once they get to a certain age..in fact we don't really know them at all once they reach their late teens. The parents of the boys that have been in the news have lost them already and they know it.