Anti-Jewish double standards

It does feel like we are talking past each other about whether double standards are being applied. Using rhetoric about anti-semitism to keep those who are disgusted by the Israeli government's behaviour at arm's length is missing the point. You don't have to be anti-Semitic, anti-Jew or anti-Judaism to object to the crushing of a dwindling nation that is trying everything within it's power to resist being wiped out. Desperate acts are being used in Gaza to attract support, but the Israeli/American propaganda machine ensures we get to hear misinformation. They have a massive misinformation dept in Israeli government, whereas some intrepid international war journalists and photographers are bringing evidence of the truth from Gaza. Not that you would see much about that in the popular papers and TV news channels.

Israel's leaders have been pushing their luck for some time. Yes, Jewish people have suffered from abominable treatment over centuries, but the disproportionate onslaught by the Israeli government on Gaza can't be justified or rationalised by claiming people feel this way because they hate Jews. This is all occurring within a current climate of Islamophobia from some parts, genuine objection about terrorists murdering Christians in other parts of the Midde East, and conspiracy theories about oil reserves and duplicitous western foreign policy. We are being fed sensational news of fresh atrocities every day. Surely there is agreement that we want our governments to pitch in, send humanitarian aid, and negotiate until a settlement is reached. That might mean a climbdown for Israel because so much of Gaza and the West Bank has been seized from the Palestinians.

Totally agree POGS
I'm too tired to write much tonight but you've said what I wanted to say.

The one thing most people will agree on, I think, is it is silly to not to accept that not all Muslims behave the same, exactly the same applies to those of a Jewish origin.

What I find is the rhetoric against the Jewish people is something that I have heard for many years and I have never liked it. This attitude is being ramped up at the moment using this latest Gaza/Israeli conflict for all it's worth. It's rubbish to hide behind the rhetoric of 'Oh it's not the Jewish people, it's the government I want to bring down'. No it's not. There is a will to bring down anything and anybody Jewish from our so called intellectual elite, media, celebrities, etc. etc. I have posted before, we know where that sort of bile can lead you to eventually. That is the goal for many people, to create an atmosphere so anti Jewish, a sort of brain washing but a very successful tactic. It's plain wrong and tantamount to racial hatred. Hell at this rate the likes of Albert Einstein would never be heard in our universities because he would be classed as a pariah of mankind.

If the boot was on the other foot and Muslims were being targeted in the same way, by the same attitudes and rhetoric there would be, quite rightly, a backlash from the public, as I suppose happens to the likes of the BNP. That doesn't happen though, why, because we intellectually know that you cannot class all Muslims in say Iraq, Syria, Nigeria , Somalia etc. as being murdering b------s who crucify, stone to death, rape, hack to death anybody non Muslim. Yet this happens 24/7 and I have never heard anybody say we should boycott their goods, stop their people coming to our universities, stop their artists from performing. I would be just as concerned if they were, it's not a Jewish against Muslim issue. It is an issue over the dangers of trying to ostracize a nation and it's people.

No I'm sorry I understand the recent Gaza/Israeli conflict has been tragic but it has not been one sided in the use of weapons that are fired with the aim of taking a life. I am not biased toward either nation when it comes to the use of warfare. I do believe that Palestine does have a case against Israel but it looses my good will when it fires rockets into Israel breaking a ceasefire agreement for example.

I just wish this ceasefire holds and there could be a meaningful dialogue between Palestine and Israel but there has to be the will on the both sides and to be honest I don't see it, again and again.

Nigglie-Israel,doesn't pay, America does

'Digs' 'comments' 'imply' FFS

Another good reason boycotting Israeli goods is that some of them are not Israeli at all. In spite of being labelled "Made in Israel", they are, in fact, from the Occupied Territories.

There are very many Jews here and in Israel who do separate Zionism from Judaism, too many websites to list but Jews for Justice for Palestinians has more information en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Justice_for_Palestinians

Read the thread niggly there are lots of digs and comments that imply that because people/countries are arab/muslim they must all think the same. When Northern Ireland troubles were headlines were any other Catholic countries(France/Spain/Italy) expected to support /speak out??

It is an extremely complex situation that I have lived with all my life. I expect many of those of Jewish heritage to find it harder to split the Zionism from Judaism but I do have several Jewish friends who can and do.

I will (& have!) hold up a banner and march to fight anti-semetism but I will also boycott goods and services that benefit Zionist policies that harm my heritage.

You won't, for the simple reason that Israel has a proper defence system, air raid shelters for civilians and a first class civil defence force; In other words Israel spends time and money defending it's citizens and keeping them, particularly children, out of harms way. Hamas deliberately endangers it's citizens and does little or nothing to defend and protect them.

I wonder why we haven't seen pictures of the devastation caused by these rockets.

No one is lumping Muslims/Arabs as baddies, but surely it is a little odd that there is no outcry at muslim atrocities from anyone in the Arab world, and yet hysteria at Israel retaliating at obvious provocation? Double standards would seem to be alive and well!

Twenty minutes to get out of your home. If you're "lucky".

Israel does terrorise Palestinians. It has been documented, photographed and decried by several 'independent' humanitarian organisations and the UN.

Why is is OK to lump all Muslims/Arabs together as the baddies but not alright to say that Zionism, a political ideal, not supported by all Jews, is wrong?

Well, what a surprise, the leader living in Qatar!! what a brave man he must be, deliberately starting this awful chaos, and then - curiously not being affected by it!! Israel most certainly does not deliberately target vulnerable people, why else would they drop leaflets and try to warn people of an impending attack - as a previous poster pointed out weapons of destruction are deliberately positioned in public places, no attempt is made to protect the population by their government, in fact the more carnage the better the propaganda - not a thought, a fact!! tunnels will be quickly repaired, buildings will not - surely no right minded responsible government deliberately puts it's own citizens in such appalling danger and suffering. Perhaps the west should be asking Israel to help in the humanitarian relief in Iraq? particularly as the rest of the Arab world, in including the European Muslim population seem curiously quiet in the face of this catastrophe. Where are the marches, where are the banners? If this was Israel behaving like this, imagine the uproar, but in this brutality, brother countries are deafening by their silence! Can't think why!!!!!!

Gaza is very heavily populated. The people firing rockets into Israel do so from heavily populated areas. Israel has the choice of not retaliating at all or retaliating and risking harming the civilian population. The leader of Hamas is living in Qatar, by the way. Let's pray the ceasefire holds this time.

How come they hit their homes, and their children, then?

if you're interested

a step in the right direction

NigglyNellie - very good post.
jings - it's such complex situation but I don't believe that Israel is "targeting families."
I should stay out of this, too emotionally involved.

How exactly is Israel helping to defeat the IS? I doubt if they give two hoots about what is happening to some Muslims, so long as it doesn't affect them.

Don't make the Israelis out to be some sort of heroic protectors.

Are the last two posters really lumping all the ordinary families that are being targeted by the Israelis, in with these so-called, "Islamic State" creatures?

I'm just holding my breath and crossing everything that this cease fire holds, and that some form of accommodation for both sides can be found on a permanent basis; A forlorn hope no doubt, but it's worth the wish. Western governments, (and probably Arab ones too judging by their inaction over the disaster in Iraq) ) certainly want to keep a militarily strong Israel as lets face it, they are the only country, apart from the brave Kurds, in that area who can, and WILL take on insurgents that threaten the whole region. Frankly the West has the most ineffectual, weak, and dithering set of politicians seen since WW2. Wait for the EU or UN while they pontificate, scratch their heads, wring their hands and go from one resolution to another that no one can agree on, making themselves a laughing stock in the eyes of the evil creatures that seem to stalk the Middle East and elsewhere in the world. Israel has lots of faults but dithering and procrastination is not one of them. They are a force to be reckoned with and these vile savages know it, and if anyone can and will stop them in their tracks it will be Israel, so for that reason alone it is in the pathetic western nations interests to preserve a strong Israel to do the nasty bits for them, oh, and take all the condemnation too. Europe pretends to disapprove, but in fact they don't, as it saves them from having to dirty their hands - bit like having a hired assassin which of course is nothing to do with you!!!!!!!!!!

Lilygran

Well said.

I think there is a rule for one and not the other in the way people think, bordering on hypocrisy. Why is it right to boycott goods from Israel but if anybody dared to say let's boycott goods from a Muslim country who murders innocent people by beheading, stoning, crucifixion, raping women and murdering children and taking their land it would be said it was racist / xenophobic.

I too have Jewish friends who think the same as myself, Israel has a right to defend itself and as long as Hamas fires rockets at it's people with a desire to kill then that is what it will do. They also agree, except one, that Israel is wrong to keep building and there should be more condemnation from the likes of the UN.

I think it is very telling that some universities for example are distinctly anti Jewish speakers. This behaviour IS reminiscent of past history , we all know how that ended. This whole anti Jewish rhetoric being stoked up is very worrying and to be honest.

I am not taking sides I see both Palestine and Israel as aggressors in this case. I understand the Palestinian problem but it is not right to promote anti Jewish rhetoric, the same as it is not right to make anti Muslim rhetoric. A very slippery road.

Libby Purves can usually be relied on for informed, intelligent and reasoned comment. She does not disappoint in this instance either.

Kenan Malik's response to Owen Jones's arguments. This quote, for me, is an important point he's making. I'm glad he's made it because I've been feeling the same thing for a while without the skill to say it so well: "It is the cynical use of conflicts, to progress the underlying narrative of anti-US/Israel/West, that forms the bases of my criticisms."