Rotherham Child Abuse

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Another group I totally despise are those men who will pay to have sex with girls who are obviously under age and being coerced and who are frightened.

The important point is that the police (or any other agency) cannot pick and choose whom they protect on the basis of their opinion of their perceived worth. This would be unacceptable (to say the least) if the victims were adults, but beggars belief in the case of children.

Evil men like those who abused these girls got away with what they did because those who should have stopped them did not. The evil have been condemned and a number are now in prison but if those who are paid to protect us from evil do not do their job they are doubly to blame. Punishing the evil doers is the easy bit

We have the whole panoply of Social Services, the police, Council officials etc who are all paid to protect society from those who would harm its members and protect the vulnerable from themselves. Every single one of them has not just let these children down but in many cases condemned them to a life sentence of mental illness and trauma. They then compound the injury by washing their hands in public of responsibility for anything that happened and blame everyone but themselves for what went wrong. Their words of apology are trotted out with all the sincerity of a bookmaker sympathising with losing punters and it is nauseating.

Of course we condemn those who commit the crimes but I quite unapologetically condemn those who should have stopped it - and didn't even more because of the gutless way they have shown by their excuses and blame passing how little they really care about the victims and their suffering. Are they not equally culpable

'The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.'

Granny Twice

I know there are issues about the responsibility and accountability with those agencies. The same as the Baby P case, Cyryl Smith, Childrens homes all over the UK. etc. etc.

What I get so cross about is the fall out from all these cases blames the services, quite rightly but the filthy \*)@2/'s who have murdered, raped, groomed, beaten children, enacted depraved acts of paedophilia etc. are no longer the story.

I will give an example. Everybody knows the name of Shaun Wright but the names and faces of the paedophile ring have hardly been aired. The fact this is an Asian paedophile ring, the possible cultural connection is not spoken of, only by a few who dare to mention it. Why, it isn't racist, it's what this case has at the heart of the problem. Not talking about that fact will as sure as apples fall to the ground will not allow progress to be made.

I don't disagree with a lot of the comments made, I understand that we all come at things from different angles and this case will be horrid to all posters.

Eleothan has picked out the same items that jumped out at me and I posted a few posts back.

This cavalier attitude to children by the police - picking and choosing those deserving of their protection, and making judgements about how worthwhile the victims are is quite horrific. And the cautions for having sex with a 12 year old reflect this attitude. I am surprised that it is legally within their powers not to charge and refer for trial.

Vile! Not only have they shown utter contempt for their victims but also for a society that has allowed them to do exactly as they wish. When we become this constrained by political correctness we might as well be living in a totalitarian society.

One of the abusers is already out of prison and back on the streets, so the punishment received hardly fits the crime. I imagine some of the girls will always remain damaged by their experiences.

I'd like to think after everything that has been uncovered, nothing like this will ever happen again, but I doubt it.

That's what the report was about ffs

Actually Pogs I think you are verging on the bloody insulting to imply that we have no views on those men. It's just that some of us can juggle more than one thing in our minds at once - be appalled appalled appalled appalled at their behaviour and be appalled appalled appalled that they got away with it for so long and want to understand why

We can have all the views we want about those men and I'm sure we do but unless we ( society) understand what went wrong, how on earth can any progress be made? And yes there are issues about responsibility and accountability with all those agencies , how can there not be?

Of course it isn't a taboo question POGS. But if those with power and authority fail to act as they should then these criminals will never face the force of the law. That's why everyone is so disgusted.

So, it has been decided by the majority of posters that the Police, Social Services the CPS and the Council were all to blame because of sexism, classism, incompetence and they don't respect youth.

Can I ask if anybody has a view on the actual paedophile ring that murdered, raped and damaged for life these poor children, or is that a taboo question.

Papa - I thought he would have gone by tomorrow. Still think it's possible especially now the deputy has resigned. Yes the legislation and the whole concept of PCCs was fundamentally flawed and based on pure ideology. If people are appointed as opposed to elected it's easy to have procedures to remove them - at least there should have been the power of recall as there should be with MPs

Yes thanks for the summary Eleothan.
I don't suppose Jack Straw is feeling any satisfaction that people are now agreeing with the comments he made in 2011. They were very well publicised at the time. But police etc in Rotherham obviously not listening.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12142177

What nobody has asked yet, is where was Childline or NSPCC in this? I most certainly am not holding them responsible for what happened, but surely they are big enough voices to be heard if a child or children contacted them? so did they shout? Were they ignored?

Just heard Shaun Wright the Police Commisioner for Rotherham and former senior councillor with child-care responsibilities, refusing to resign. Then I heard Theresa May stating that it was not her job to suspend or remove him from office. Now I remember that the present government introduced this elected Police Commissioner business and should surely have included scope in the legislation for removal from office in the event of concerns about conduct or suitability. If not they certainly should have done so. Is this not another example of sloppy, ill-conceived legislation resulting in great public dissatisfaction. I cannot forget what those poor kids must have suffered in the hands of those monsters, and the indifference of the authorities.

Hear hear - excellent post Eloethan

Eleo - excellent post

Great, patronised and agreeing with Yasmin Adibhia Brown and Tony Benn all on one thread.

I must be a closet leftie

I had read and seen quite a lot about this report but I read it myself today to get a fuller picture.

The Report's findings seem largely to indicate that the inaction in this matter was due, at best, to a lack of understanding by the Police of what constitutes child sexual exploitation and, at worst, a negative attitude towards the children who were viewed as disruptive and a nuisance. The report states:

“The Police gave no priority to child sexual exploitation, regarding many child victims with contempt, and failing to see their abuse as a crime” and;

“We have already seen that children as young as 11 were deemed to have consensual sex. There were reports of police refusing to intervene when young girls were being beaten up and abused. Their attitude was they were "undesirables" and not worthy of police protection".

2 male adults received CAUTIONS for having sex with a child.

A 12 year old was found drunk in the back of a car with a man who had indecent photographs on his phone. No action was taken. A month later she was found in a derelict house with another child and several adult males. She was arrested for being drunk and disorderly. No action was taken against the men at that time.

In 2010 the Licensing Enforcement Officer (taxis) wrote formally to the Police following an incidents of alleged attempted abduction. (The parents had followed and identified the driver and taxi number and had dialled 999. Police did not attend until later and took no action. ) The Licensing officer stated that "a simple check would have revealed that the driver had previously been arrested in Bradford for the kidnapping of a lone female."

Risky Business, a small team of youth workers - it seems the only people to come out relatively unscathed in this report - reported having a difficult relationship with the statutory agencies. The Report states "The “mapping” exercise from Risky Business, cross-referencing a lot of data on perpetrators and victims was not well received by the Police. There were no investigations made or charges brought."

The Police appeared more interested in dealing with offences such as burglary and car crime, for which targets had been set, than in dealing with the matter of child sexual exploitation, for which there were no targets.

The conduct of the Council and other authorities was also criticised but it was acknowledged that Children's Services were overwhelmed with not just child sexual exploitation cases but many other types of case, including parental abuse/neglect. It seems that everything was pretty chaotic and, whilst there appeared to be lots of meetings, these didn't result in effective measures to combat what was happening.

In 2006 Ofsted stated “It appeared that vulnerable children and young people are kept safe from abuse and exploitation.”

The culture within the Council was said to be "macho" and "sexist":

“A colleague was told she ought to wear shorter skirts to meetings and she would get on better."

There was also reported to be a lot of bullying, with those raising concerns on various issues being shouted down and sworn at.

Whilst there is an ethnic dimension to this particular problem in this particular area, it seems to me that the overriding theme is one of sexism, classism and incompetence.

Nonu - the only way I compare myself to that bunch is that I know I am infinitely superior in all ways

A specific example of the importance of class ( or socio- economic status - could have a thread about differences in terminology)is infant mortality. The higher the social class, the lower the rate. It always has been since statistics were first kept. If policy makers know this, it should help them design and deliver services with that in mind. What I find a real pity is that we don't make better use of some of this information in making policy and delivering services

What Benn said was a bit silly really, there is a class system in this country, whether people like it or not .

I don"t in any way shape or form compare myself to the Royal Family or the aristocrats

And TB was wrong on this ( and a few other things)

Oh Pogs - regarding class as an important determinant in how people experience society and how it treats them doesn't mean for one minute that I am talking about their worth - that really is completely illogical , drawing that inference from what I said. And to add to what Petallus said, there is a whole literature on class, use of health services, health outcomes etc. Understanding the importance of class, and gender and race and disability and how they all impact on people should help us to offer better support, design services that meet people's needs better. And in the context of such a serious thread, the impact of class and its associated disadvantage is very apposite.