Housing Benefit for under 25s

On a very basic economic level, balancing the books is important and even at a household level or running a small business as I do, we do, I think, all understand that there has to be a balance between increasing income and decreasing costs. On a household basis, we may look at cutting expenditure on fuel, food, heating or whatever, and increasing income by working overtime, taking on extra work or whatever. On this basis, the current government is proposing cutting expenditure by reducing benefit payments, cutting funding to various departments, but I have yet to see their proposal to increase income. This could easily be done by making sure that large companies pay their corporation tax, and are not able to dodge it like Phillip Green ( Arcadia), Amazon, Vodaphone and others. It should be a very simple change to the tax legislation. I know I have mentioned it before, but with my small business, (turn over circa £100k) I pay more Corporation Tax than The Ritz Hotel! how can this be right? Yes, we are a rich country, but not an equal one.

I gave you the link, POGS. It was in the post above the chippie story. Why are you always so suspicious of people? I have no reason to believe it wasn't a true story, do you?
Here it is again to save you looking back.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/10/02/ids-plan-to-starve-and-stigmatise-people-on-benefits

Who is the person relating to the chippy story.?

I thought you relating a personal, factual story then I noted you were using another persons quote again.

I think I would have been tempted to watch for a while to establish a little more of his actions and asked the chip shop owner if he knew he was outside asking for food. If the owner said something like "Yeah he does it all the time", it's a bit of a con or "No, I didn't" I would have called the police to be honest.

I wouldn't have felt comfortable and if the children were 'genuinely' being neglected by their parents, which I am sorry to say that's how I see things, then somebody in authority should be allerted. If the family were in such a dire situation they couldn't feed their children then they need backup or if the children were neglected then that is not a situation I could have not reported.

I would urge caution as sometimes the outward picture doesn't tally with the truth but where children are concerned, begging for food, then it is impossible to ignore what is happening in their lives.

Actually 'whoever' the person was relating this story doesn't score very highly on my radar, I think they were a little cowardly actually.

Also, was it a true story?

Like you, Eloethan, I cannot understand why people support what this government is doing to the poor.
I could understand in a way the idea of the working-class Tory being taken in in a "you too can be rich if you work hard" way. But not now. Everyone must have heard that the 1% are taking all the money, and not even spending it here any more. The trickle down effect has vanished altogether.

That is it exactly gillybob - there's plenty of money but it's held in the hands of very few people. It seems to me that the so-called middle class is gradually being eroded away and we are returning to the days where there is a vastly reduced "middle class" consisting largely of technocrats, a large majority of poor people and the 1% containing very rich people whose wealth will continue to increase.

Unfortunately, many of the people who are doing all right at the moment are very supportive of this government's policies. It is much more comfortable to blame poor people for their poverty and to attribute good fortune to hard work and thriftiness, than to acknowledge that the whole system is totally unfair. However, those that are comfortable now and who are very relaxed about the government's current policies, may well live to regret it when their own - and more importantly their children's and grandchildren's - employment opportunities, working hours, incomes and employment rights have been whittled away.

Yes, gillybob, we are supposed to be a rich country.
This link says it all concerning housing benefit, for all ages. It looks like the only council where housing benefit has decreased is Westminster, despite the caps. But the biggest increase is in the amount given to private landlords.
If you can't be bothered to read it all, the final three paragraphs are enough.

speye.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/the-rise-of-hb-under-the-coalition-welfare-reform-just-isnt-working/

Eloethan, Shelter has an exhibition of photos taken in the 60s and 70s showing poverty in Britain. The only difference between then and now is that now the photos would be in colour.

Do you really trust UKIP with benefits, Magpie?

ri.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A7x9UknXdy5UKSAAhPB3Bwx.;_ylu=X3oDMTBydDFnbTUyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2lyMgR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1412360279/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.bbc.co.uk%2fnews%2fuk-england-cambridgeshire-26786742/RK=0/RS=XeEQvWr__EtgoxzaOAYTR.VkQu4-

Britain is a wealthy country though durahmjen It is just that the wealth is not evenly distributed (or infact barely distributed at all). You just have to glance at a certain newspaper to see pictures of super yachts, houses (mostly in London of course) being "snapped up" for tens of millions, super cars worth more than the average home etc.

There is something very wrong when on the other end of the scale people are begging for food.

Only one of my grandchildren is young enough to watch CBBC still, Eloethan. The eldest two, 14 and 21, get just as indignant as I do about politics in this country. Hopefully our grandchildren will be able to help to put things right.
I do not show them all the links I find. It's enough that it depresses me.

I've never seen this website before, but it's about disabled and how, despite what Osborne said, they are just as, if not more, affected by the cuts as able-bodied youngsters.

wheresthebenefit.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/four-things-from-conservative-party.html

When my grandchildren are watching CBBC and the closing song comes on, it finishes with the lines:

"We've had so much fun today
Tomorrow's just a dream away
Now it's time to say goodnight
It's the end of a lovely day".

I think of all those children living in damp, crowded homes, who perhaps haven't had a decent meal all day, whose parents are tired, irritable and preoccupied with the worries of an ever-shrinking pot of money with which to pay for food and energy. And I wonder what sort of "lovely day" they've had.

"NEVER in all my adult life (I'm 57) have I ever been asked by a child in the street for something to eat! Recently, on my way home & I popped in the chippy (as I didn't want to cook) and a boy of about 9-10 asked me if I had some chips to spare as he and his brother hadn't had anything to eat since breakfast the day before. I asked why? The boy said his Mum had no money for food.
If that incident had have happened a few years back, I would have got the police, but, living near a food bank I have heard many tales of the vicious attack on the poor (one lady in my street works there and said she's broken down crying at the terrible plight of the some people)
This would be tragic in some third world country, but, in 21st century Britain it's inexcusable! Especially as David Cameron said: 'Britain is a wealthy country' in the floods of Feb 2014."

This is a quote from the responses to the above article.
I felt quite sick on reading it.

www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/10/02/ids-plan-to-starve-and-stigmatise-people-on-benefits

Another idea from IDS and how it applies to foreigners.

I think the bottom line is that the EU has free movement of workers, and the workers pay taxes to the country where they are working at the time.

If they lose their jobs, the countries where they have worked and paid taxes have a responsibility to give them benefits proportionate to the taxes they paid and the length of time they were employed. That is still true if they then return "home". It must make things very complicated if people move about a lot.

The UK did this up to a short time ago, then changed their policy. There was some talk in the article about some qualifying period being 2 years in the UK, but 6 months in other countries - but I did not really read that bit closely.

I didn't think you were making it up durhamjen. We probably need an MEP to give an in depth explanation - it's sure to be complicated.

Gracesgran, it's not me saying it. It's a quote from someone who lives in the Czech Republic, as I said. I did not make it up.

I certainly don't loathe and detest UKIP petallus I just see them as appealing to the old Thatcherite contingent. Her politics didn't appeal the first time round and they don't this time either.

I agree annodomini that the problems were world-wide and started in the USA. If any political party added to our problems then they all did as they all happily voted for the policies that allowed problems in this country.

I'd be interested to know what those who loathe and detest UKIP expect the outcome of voting for them would be.

Concentration camps? Forcible repatriation of non-whites? Persecution of gay people?

The old myth of Labour leaving the country in debt. What about the Lehman Brothers' crash? What about the sub-prime mortgage scandal in the USA? I could go on. Though I am not a Labour supporter, they are currently the only party I would trust with the NHS.

That's interesting Magpie123. I did wonder what those who are pro UKIP expected the outcome of voting for them to be. Thank you.

UKIP are making a difference already, at one time you could not discuss immigration, you were called racist, also I don't think David Cameron would be offering an in/out referendum on the EU if it wasn't for Nigel, although I have my doubts that this will happen. The government were quick enough to offer the Scots a referendum which in my opinion should not have happened. Obviously UKIP will not have enough seats to win an election, but the Nigel factor is making a difference, getting people taking about issues that the other parties brushed under the carpet. If Clegg could become Deputy Prime Minister, never say never.

As for trusting UKIP with my pension and the NHS the other parties have not got it right yet. I would trust Nigel on benefits and getting the country out of debt. I don't think Nigel would be paying Poles etc benefis do you. Do you think Labour did a good job, leaving the country in debt?

Is that really true durhamjen? I thought you would apply to the job centre of the country you are in and the governments would sort out who pays what. I also thought that, rather than them paying you because they were the last country you were in it was proportionate, i.e. if you had worked here for 19 years and there for 1 simplistically they would pay one twentieth of the JSA.

I am not saying you are wrong. Just that that was how I understood it.

"Why are the Czech republic and Slovakia not responsible for paying their own citizens out of work benefits?

They are. I ,as a Brit and a permanent resident of the CR, am entitled to unemployment / pension. If I moved back to the UK at some point, I would also need to apply to the Czech state for my benefits. The UK wouldn't give me any as I have not been there. See how that works?
"
This was in the Guardian last week. The quote is a response from someone living in the Czech Republic. It's supposed to be a reciprocal agreement, but Britain, amazingly, isn't playing fair. That's why the EU countries want their money.

I can understand the logic Elegran that if they've paid something in, they are entitled to something back out but, as you have said, it has to be in line with what they have paid in surely.

A bit in POGS post puzzled me as well: The UK threshold is 2 years as opposed to other countries it is as low as six months. - why is that?

Sorry, I don't mean to sound as though I expect you to have all the answers but I know very, very little about this area.

It seems there is a sliding scale, Hollydaze, so if they have not been working and paying tax for long, they will not get much back. At one point in the article it says something about the UK being liable "as the latest employer" I am not sure what that means, surely if they are liable because of the tax paid, they would be liable for a certain amount, even if the worker had worked elsewhere in between paying the tax and becoming unemployed?

magpie123 - can UKIP form a government? I think it has been said that they couldn't yet (but I could be wrong about that).

Maybe take a leaf out of the handbook of the Chinese students and stage a mass sit-in in London to bring it all to a standstill until they start listening!