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What sort of federalism would you like for the UK?

(61 Posts)
Gracesgran Fri 19-Sept-14 19:35:21

This seems to be coming up in several other threads so I hope is OK to ask the direct question. smile

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Sept-14 11:32:52

grin Hello Ana. How's your Saturday going?

Ana Sat 20-Sept-14 11:39:41

Fine, thank you jingl! Nearly half of it gone already...shock

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Sept-14 11:45:00

I know! I'm waiting for dd to come and take me away from it all for a couple of hours.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Sept-14 11:45:57

As you were, thinkers of Gransnet. smile

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Sept-14 11:47:34

Oh yes Feetle! You're right. Less. grin

durhamjen Sat 20-Sept-14 11:59:11

Elegran, the A74 idea is just what they are doing with high-speed trains, saying that the North East will get high-speed if it catches a train from London to Birmingham, then Leeds, then Newcastle. It will cut 20 minutes off, I think, but you'll spend longer than that changing trains.
I'd rather they just left the East Coast mainline as the only nationalised train rather than selling it off just before the next election.
Actually, that's a lie. I'd rather they renationalised the railways altogether.

Education is a very interesting area. This government has allowed free schools to proliferate. These schools are financed from central government and take money away from council run schools, if there are any left. Would federalisation include schools? In which case can we get rid of free schools that are inordinately expensive to run?

penguinpaperback Sat 20-Sept-14 12:02:05

Everything jings and feetle said.

Grannybug Sat 20-Sept-14 12:39:11

I agree with you gracesgran and I have experienced negative comments about the Scots not "jocks' as described by feetlebaum.

lassie Sat 20-Sept-14 15:04:41

As it happens I was just reading an article on the BBC about the "J" word. I've never been that keen on it myself (as a Scot) but as my sister in law - from Liverpool points - it's no different to her being called a Scouser, I think that's a fair point - it's just Slang rather than abuse. This is th article news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8094716.stm

Gracesgran Sat 20-Sept-14 15:48:52

Everyone has the right to vote how they choose jinglbellsfrocks, and calling them idiots doesn't really help. I would not choose to vote that way but I understand, while not agreeing, why many people do.

If you wish to discount the huge numbers who were making a statement about the three bigger parties surely the fact that few people vote in General Elections shows that it is felt to be "broke" by many voters.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Sept-14 17:46:54

I Wasn't actually trying to help! (What with anyway?)

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Sept-14 17:50:00

I got one of Gransnet HQ's famous snotty emails because I called the French frogs, so we'd better watch it with the "jocks". grin

petra Sat 20-Sept-14 18:56:07

I'm not an idiot. But I will be voting UKIP. So will my Dentist and Hairdresser.

jinglbellsfrocks Sat 20-Sept-14 20:25:21

Jolly good. smile

rosequartz Sat 20-Sept-14 20:33:58

My Scottish friend and colleague was known as 'Jimmy' by some work colleagues (as in 'see yew Jimmy') although that is not his name. He has a sense of humour and didn't take offence.

rosequartz Sat 20-Sept-14 20:43:51

In answer to the OP though, I would say none.

annodomini Sat 20-Sept-14 21:15:59

Why should it be worse to be called a Jock than to be called a Geordie?

feetlebaum Sat 20-Sept-14 21:51:05

UKIP - traitors. Take EU Parliament seats and then do damn all for our interests..

Despicable.

HollyDaze Sat 20-Sept-14 21:59:07

^one of the first, and simplest, moves would be to remove the tolls from the Severn crossings - tolls on bridges have been removed in Scotland. The cost is a scandal and does nothing to promote Welsh businesses.
It costs £19.20 for a lorry to cross the bridge (due to go up again in January).^

Spain has no road tax at all but does charge motorists a toll for using the motorways (A roads and all others have no toll charges though). Might be an idea to ask them how they manage it!

HollyDaze Sat 20-Sept-14 22:06:59

Why would it mean another layer of government? Surely it would mean the same number as now? It would just mean that your MP would spend more time in their constituencies than in London - less travelling expenses, no need for hotel stays, no need for second homes. In fact, given technology, why do they need to travel to London so much anyway?

Gracesgran Sat 20-Sept-14 22:23:02

In answer to the OP though, I would say none.

That's interesting Rosequartz. There was a reminder in the Guardian today of how things used to be.

"Until 1986, the main English conurbations had their own regional tier of government through the Greater London council and the metropolitan county councils covering the West Midlands, Greater Manchester, Merseyside, South Yorkshire, West Yorkshire and Tyne and Wear. These were abolished by Margaret Thatcher and their powers either taken over by Whitehall or devolved to district councils."

I must admit that I do not think this centralisation of power has worked. I feel it has left many people feeling disenfranchised. Obviously you are happy with it but I will look forward to any suggestions to decentralise once again.

rosequartz Sun 21-Sept-14 10:28:59

I know there are tolls on continental motorways, but the bridge toll is £19.20 for a distance of approximately 2 miles and is discriminating against Welsh businesses.

I remember the Local Government reorganisation in about 1972, Gracesgran and remember being astonished at how the boss's salaries suddenly escalated (whereas ours did not)..
Jobs for the boys, too much management, creaming off resources from vital services - reorganisation never seems to be for the better.

We could start by getting rid of the quangos.

rosequartz Sun 21-Sept-14 10:34:40

I thought there was less, not more centralisation. We now have five layers of government in our part of the country, counting the european parliament, all with their representatives, staff and requiring more and better premises - whilst services get worse.

Gracesgran Sun 21-Sept-14 10:43:09

I think you would find that if you got rid of "quangos", rosequartz which are in many cases, government departments put at arms length in a effort to make them more efficient, many if not all would go back to being government departments.

I worked for one at one stage and the people with the specific knowledge for the area we were in had been changed many times. They had all worked together before, and then not as the areas were separated out, and then back together. Usually there is a small group with the core knowledge and very few others in the country that have that knowledge. You might redistribute them and save by getting rid of a few highly paid CEOs but they would no doubt come under a highly paid someone else. These people are usually very good at knowing how government works but can milk their positions. So, you may, in the end, get rid of a few highly paid people, who would be replaced by one or two fewer highly paid people with the savings being off-set by the costs of change.

HollyDaze Sun 21-Sept-14 12:05:39

I know there are tolls on continental motorways, but the bridge toll is £19.20 for a distance of approximately 2 miles and is discriminating against Welsh businesses.

The point I was trying to make is that if motorists are paying road tax, why are they also paying tolls?