After those ridiculous posters

ULTRA-Orthodox Jewish men.

I do agree with Eloethan's comment as well. If a person is an adherent to a religion that dictates such extreme requirements in a social situation, I do think the onus should be on them to do what they have to do, without impinging on others. If they are flying en mass to Israel, perhaps they should charter a flight so they are all in the same boat or in this case plane together. El Al must know their clientele, surely they should advise Orthodox Jewish men that their requirements cannot be guaranteed and as Holly has pointed out if they prove to be disruptive on the flight they should be removed.

I'll bet she lapped it up - thinking of the tweeting and blogging opportunities it was giving her.

Wept - my arse!

That was my reaction Eloethan - when you think of other disruptive behaviour, people are generally removed from the flight as soon as is possible so I don't understand why this was allowed to continue.

How humiliating (and enraging) this experience must have been for Elana Sztokman - particularly having men around her discussing the situation without addressing her or looking at her.

Since these men have such exacting requirements, perhaps they should in future go to the expense of chartering themselves a private plane rather than insult female passengers and inconvenience everybody.

I would not find this sort of behaviour acceptable from a person of any other religious or philosophical persuasion and I feel he should have been asked to leave the plane rather than have take-off delayed.

Many thanks Lilygran - I was beginning to think there had been two incidents!

As I just said, on the wrong thread...there's an Abba song...goes "On and on and on..."

It is worth saying that those men are ultra orthodox Jews, comparable to Plymouth Brethren in Christian terms. Criticism just makes them more convinced that they are the only ones acting as God would have them behave, and being reviled for it.

The behaviour of those men was appallingly rude and the saddest thing of all is that they don't even know it.

Thank you for the link, lily.

It seems to be the same flight, Holly, same date. Interesting different take on the incident!

Looks like they picked the wrong woman that time - she is an articulate Jewish woman who spent 13 years in a Jewish girls' school and does understand, and spoke up about the incident - and wrote about it on the net.

Is that the same flight Lilygran? I notice that the article says 'woman' (singular) but the previous article cited 'women'.

More on the delayed flight www.tabletmag.com/scroll/185506/orthodox-man-refuses-to-sit-next-to-feminist-activist-on-airplane?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Post&utm_content=Orthodox+Man+Refuses+to+Sit+Next+to+Feminist+Activist+on+Airplane&utm_campaign=Sept2014. And even more - a respectable grandfather of my acquaintance, travelling alone, kicked up a fuss because on a flight he was asked to move from his pre-chosen seat so that he would not be sitting next to a child he did not know. He was upgraded.

So good to know that the posters of Gransnet are rallying to save the women-folk of the world. Even the ones who don't want saving.

Not that sort of guidance. Literal guidance.

That's good, ana. So the Jewish women at whom they were addressed were free to ignore the 'polite request' on the posters? Really? In which case, why were the posters necessary?

Guidance, my arse!

Crossed posts, jingl

I do not agree with these rules being imposed in a public place in Great Britain

No 'rules' were imposed on anyone. The posters were meant as guidance for members of the religion concerned, not as an order to the general public.

That point has already been answered in the thread rosequartz (about the posters being intended not for the general public (and agreeing that this should have been made clearer on the posters))

Going round in circles now.

Indeed we must.

I think we must all be very careful to avoid bigotry when we judge other people.

Why should opposition to the idea of a minority imposing their views and culture on a majority translate into a hatred of any religion?

If the group in the article would prefer to be segregated inside their religious meeting places that is up to them, but I do not agree with these rules being imposed in a public place in Great Britain.

I take exception to the idea that this would mean that I have a hatred of any religion, or have some sort of hang-up about religion.

Can't you get your head round the fact that something that holds true for some subjects, does not necessarily hold true for other ones?

Muddled thinking? Or just some kind of hang-up over, or even hatred of, religion - any religion?

Worrying!

Excellent post GillT57