Iraq bombings

If ISIS were a few miles from my village, and knowing what they are likely to do to me, my children, grandchildren and menfolk, I'd prefer to take my chance on being hit by a stray bomb than just sitting waiting for my family to be brutally massacred.

(I don't just mean Rowantree there btw)

I hope you listen, at least, to the vicar of Baghdad in that link. He is a very brave man and, being there, in the midst of it all, he knows what's what.

Rowantree they have to be eliminated. Or how else do you think they can be stopped from carrying out their terrible deeds?

There will have to troops on the ground eventually. And it will probably have to, in part, be ours.

I not "are"

Btw - re the item are linked to - ignore the American General at the very beginning. (same old same old)

And they think the West are devils incarnate too. I think that we've been goaded by Isis into this reaction. They knew damn well we'd respond with military action and that this would spur on their supporters to engage in more terrible acts. It will only polarise further - we can't ever elminate them. I fear that there will be an increase in fanatics going to join them from the UK and the rest of Europe, to join in what they see as a holy war. There will also be increased danger in the UK and anywhere engaged in miliary action against them - more atrocities, more innocent lives lost. It cannot come to good. I am revolted by IS as much as anyone but I cannot see a good outcome to this action

There are a couple of very informative items here The soldier and the vicar

It doesn't take much effort on the part of our leaders to convince the population that invading and bombing another country, involving death and mutilation of the civilian population, is an act of mercy/heroism.

On news footage, I heard members of ISIS chanting 'death to the Crusaders'

It's perhaps not the thing to say but I think of this as a scenario.

I am a prisoner of war in a Japanese camp in Burma and I see RAF bomber planes flying over, or I am in Belsen and hear bombs being dropped nearby. I think I would be saying Well, this is it for me, but thank God the world knows I am here and for the rest of my people and their survival I hope to God they get the b-----s.

Exactly my thought thatbags

If I or anyone I know had suffered from the vile acts of IS, I think I'd regard being obliterated by a bomb that wasn't intended for me as preferable to continuing to suffer IS outrages. These people are straight out of hell—devils incarnate.

It was stated during the debate in parliament that ISIS has sold the oil to Assad, it would be foolish not to assume others too.

I assume that to be Bashir al-Asaad not Riad al-Asaad whom I believe no longer leads the Free Syrian Army.

Petrodollars it maybe but it is the backbone of how ISIS is functioning and it is one part of trying to destabilise ISIS and it's blood soaked ethos.

The subject of killing innocent cilcilians is obviously emotive. The killing of innocent civilians by the thousands through beheading, rape and murder, crucifixion, putting a bullet into a child's head is also emotive isn't it.

When we watch civilians telling their stories it does not have the same effect as seeing actual footage. The barbarism of ISIS is so utterly dispicable we cannot be shown it through our media. I don't want to, my imagination is enough. If however we did see the thousands of deaths and the way they were carried out I would suggest the outcry would turn anybody to saying that however little, however impotent we may be something has to be tried to anhialate ISIS. Doing nothing is just not realistic.

Petrodollars Tegan explain it all.

We have always ignored any wrong doing by Saudi Arabia . That's what makes these situations so difficult to understand.

Who is buying the oil from which ISIS is profiting? I heard reports that the bombing is initially being targeted at the oil installations to prevent ISIS from amassing more money with which to equip themselves - but nothing is being said about which countries are actually buying the oil.

There are so many contradictions in what is happening. Saudi Arabia has funded ISIS and yet it is still our ally. As somebody commented on Newsnight tonight, we are arming and supporting several groups who we in the recent past designated to be terrorists. The whole thing is a complete mess.

I honestly can't see the purpose of these bombings - it will just bring further death, destruction, hatred and retribution. Our forays into Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, etc., etc., have only made a bad situation worse.

Also why does the name of this group of terrorists keep changing? First it was ISIS, then it was IS, now it's ISOL - why?

I'm sorry absent. I'm not cross with you. #grumpyoldcowthatsme

Nelliemoser Yep. We had some pretty horrible ways of killing people not so long ago.

No indeed! How I should have put it, is that the Islamic state cannot claim killing Muslims is just a western thing. They have been killing each other for years because of religious bigotry differences for years.

As Roman Catholics and Protestants were around 500 yrs ago.

Not just Moslems Nelliemoser.

Jingle has a good point. The Islamic state is doing a pretty efficient job of killing other Muslims right now.

jingl You do seem to be rather cross with me at the moment and I'm not at all sure why. Of course civilians are being killed. I was just commenting that collateral damage is such a hideously bland term used to conceal the horror of what it really is. I understand that they (military and political bigwigs) no longer use the term "friendly fire", which was always distinctly unfriendly to those killed and wounded by it, and now call inadvertently shooting or bombing the soldiers on your own side blue on blue. So much clearer.

And God help any RAF fighter pilot who has to eject and is captured.

It's a bit like Jews and Resistance fighters hiding from the Nazis. Would you rather be bombed or caught, tortured and killed?