Benefit sanctions

Had to leave this yesterday to see to dinner preparation. I will take your advice when I get a chance, Granny23, and we always make a donation when our local supermarket has a collection. I wish I could help in a more practical way, and have done for 2 charities in the past, but we are not on a bus route and I don't drive much anymore.
I agree about the political aspect, which is what I was really questioning, and I sign petitions and donate to 38 degrees, but I get very demoralised about the injustice in today's world.

Sorry, Granny23, I meant the first clothes bank connected with a food bank in the North East, as it said on the news tonight. They have now said they will open up every fortnight, not every month, as there is the demand.
It's on the news now as I type.

Not the first food bank to be supplying clothes Durhamjen our local 'unofficial' one (backed by the Round Table) has been doing it for some time, although the more formal one (backed by local churches) is food only and only serves those with an official referral. Our local WFI group, having consulted with both food banks, is collecting nearly new party clothes - worn last Christmas and outgrown by original owners - so that the children will be able to attend their school parties, etc. We have also been asked to donate toiletries, from shower gel and shampoo down to basics like toilet rolls and sanitary protection. Both food banks are also currently looking for Christmas goodies to make up hampers for the worst off of the families known to them.

Nannyfran you are asking where to get a clear picture of the reality. Well why not pop into your nearest food bank, (with a donation of course ) and speak to some of the lovely volunteers who work there? DD2 and her DH have been making a short film for one of our food banks, which will be used to promote their work and encourage donations from groups such as Women's Guilds, Youth & Community Groups. The film-makers biggest surprise has been to discover what cheerful, positive places the food banks are.

As individuals, we can do little politically other than lobby MPs and sign petitions but there is nothing to stop us taking some direct action locally where we see an injustice.

Iam64 and petallus you have made me see the errors of my way. Next time I see someone who could do with help I will pass by on the other side. What a terrible person I must be not to see that my motives were so wrong.

That's heartbreaking, durhamjen. It's going back to the 30s and I thought this country was supposed to be doing so well, so our politicians tell us!!
I also heard this week on the radio, that a large percentage of people who have been put on the new benefits system have waited 10 months for their money.
We seem to be getting very conflicting messages about the economy and unemployment. I don't know where to go to get a clear picture, but so many people seem to be suffering, it's a very depressing world out there.

Heard on the radio today that there is going to be the first clothes bank in conjunction with a food bank in Brandon, near Durham.
The woman who set it up said that she had heard a boy tell his mum that he had holes in his shoes. She told him that they would have to put cardboard in, because his sister needed shoes more than he did.
They are going to be open every four weeks, and will open the next one in Stanley. They have been inundated with clothes.
I find it quite appalling that this should be happening in this country, the sixth richest in the world, so we keep being told.

There was something on the radio this afternoon about a man who had an operation for cancer of the throat and was unable to work.

He and his wife filled in the forms for disability benefit and heard nothing for ten months, during which time they amassed a sizeable debt.

They were short of money at exactly the time they needed it since the man needed special things to eat.

Finally they were awarded an extra £40 a week, £20 of which went on repaying the debt.

Tough love is often long on tough and short on love. A bit of kindness and understanding goes a long way!

The thing about the consequences of the decision to appeal, or let it go, is that whatever you decide, there are consequences. For my loved one, the stress of an appeal was something she simply didn't feel able to cope with, at the same time as managing her own health, it's treatments, and her husband's illness. It's a nightmare situation, affecting people at their most vulnerable. My anger is directed at a flawed, cruel, system, not those at its mercy.

The reason I sounded angry was because I put a lot of time and energy into this, most of it persuading someone to get off her backside and be proactive. To be honest I doubt I'd do it again.

Then that was your friend's decision to make Iam and she must live with the consequences

That's an angry response Anya. I posted earlier about someone close to me who couldn't face an appeal. I offered to support her, lead on this, but she simply couldn't face the process. That's the point I was making.

Yes, I've heard of tough love, and I imagine you have heard of the idea of respecting the expressed wishes and feelings of adults who are capable of making up their own minds about things. Even if you disagree with them

If you're talking about my post and my relative Iam64 then I find your attitude very odd. Some people can't face doing all the paperwork etc alone but with an offer of help they can. She's now got her benefits back whereas she'd have been struggling. Ever heard of 'tough love'?

I suppose you'd think it better just to leave them alone and let them fall victim to the system?

If someone is capable of deciding not to appeal, because they fear the stressful process may add to existing feelings of depression and anxiety, what kind of loving relative/friend would ignore their feelings and insist on them appealing? How can you "make" someone appeal something.

My husband did not mind being called a diabetic for 54 years.
What I was saying is that it isn't always possible to control. Any change in circumstances is difficult. Even having a cold can alter your state.

Anyway, I have been out shopping, and when I returned I looked at my emails and found this. Another example of e-petitions doing good.

https://www.change.org/p/kernow-ccg-please-bring-my-son-back-home-bringjoshhome-3

I didn't say the system should get it right in the first place because that is a given DJ and I agree it should be better in the first place.

But what I am saying is that given the rulings and the fact that there is an appeal process then that is the next stage and friends and relatives should help when needed. No one can argue with that.

Re people with diabetes (I'd rather NOT tag them as diabetics) I have some experience of this too. Are you saying that they are 1) incapable of controlling their diabetes or 2) that somehow they are more at risk of DKA because they have insufficient money/benefits or other resources which put them at risk of developing this condition?

Re my last point I am NOT being in any way judgemental I'm just trying to establish in my own mind what point you are making, honestly

Why should people have to appeal, Anya?
Why do we not expect the system to get it right in the first place?
Even the CAB has started a blog about the injustice. And it is this government that has done this to people who are least able to defend themselves. It's easy to say you can appeal, but the system has even cut legal aid for those wanting to appeal.
Some of you have said that the man who died could have had money through the hardship fund. That has to be paid back.
You also said his family could have helped. He was 59, out of the army, had been looking after his disabled mother, had worked until then. He had paid into the system and expected it to look after him until he found another job.
I know of three diabetics who lived on their own, and who died within 24 hours of last being seen by friends because of ketoacidosis.

Ask Soutra about appeals. Latest stats show 51% of ESA and 48% of DLA appeals result in a a decision in favour of the claimant.

And this is where family or people 'close to' them need to step in and offer support to go through the appeal process, especially when they 'suspect she'd succeed'. I have recently gone through this with a relative who couldn't or wouldn't do it for herself and 'we' won the appeal. It wasn't that difficult especially with her GP and consultant on board.

Eloethan has as usual provided clear, accurate information, for which thanks. Someone close to me, aged 63 who was retired on health grounds 8 years ago has recently been found fit to work. That's despite the Atos doctor reassuring her that the report would confirm she isn't fit for work. She has active rheumatoid arthritis, severe osteo arthritis and other auto immune problems. Her partner is terminally ill.

Her state pension would have kicked in at age 60, if her birthdate had been 8 weeks earlier. So she's supposed to sign on, and look for work. Yes, she could appeal the decision and I suspect she'd succeed. Like so many others in this situation, the stress involved is simply beyond her. The government claim that people who don't challenge these decisions, accept they are fit for work. It's like living in Wonderland

I think your first sentence Eloethan opens up a whole area for discussion. But it's not just those who have no interest in a certain area who 'shrug their shoulders and let things happen'.

Firstly individuals have to take responsibility for themselves. Where they are incapable of doing this them their families must step up to the mark, by helping older people, their student children, those with mental health problems and so on. Most of the people I know, and I'm guessing most of the people on this forum would step in to help their families without thinking twice about it, either with direct help or (if the problem was beyond them) calling in the requisite agencies to help.

Yes, some people do slip through the net. No system is infallible, but it does make me wonder why certain families who didn't step in to help are suddenly very proactive and vocal when it is too late.

I think most people on GN admire durhamjen's fight for social justice. But others too care about issues, and sometimes they are more complex than simply blaming 'the government'.

I don't only criticise the government for everything that's wrong in this country. I feel many of its population are as much to blame for what is going on because they just shrug their shoulders and let things happen.

I also mean people like those union members who seem to focus almost entirely on their own pay and conditions, students who turn up for demonstrations about tuition fees but pay other injustices little attention, pensioners who get all up in arms about their fuel allowances and bus passes but are otherwise perfectly happy to see other sections of the community targeted, etc. etc.

In the "I" today it is reported that a Freedom of Information request has revealed that a third of people with degenerative conditions are having their benefits cut because they have been assessed as likely to be able to work. Apparently almost 8,000 people suffering from multiple sclerosis, spinal muscular atrophy, Parkinson's disease, cystic fibrosis and rheumatoid arthritis have been assessed in this way. 5,000 of them were put into the category despite assessors reporting that they were unlikely to be able to work in the longer term. One such person was 57 and had multiple sclerosis. I should think it's difficult enough getting a job at the age of 57, even without MS. Luckily his MP managed to get the decision overturned. The LGBT group that supported the miners did so, not because the dispute affected them personally but because they felt that an injustice was being perpetrated against one section of the community and that all injustices should be resisted.

I don't understand why durhamjen's comments are treated with derision. She feels passionately about the way in which ordinary people are being treated and perhaps if more people were as bothered as she is we would have a much fairer society.

I wasn't 'sneering', durj, although I wonder whether you'd be so quick to endorse an e-petition sponsored by the DM.

And I am well aware of your circumstances. I think you have mentioned them before.

You were sneering at me, Ana, for having to resort to a Mirror article.
What is parliament supposed to debate if it's not the systems it creates?

i too wonder at families who don't step in to help and then blame others.

I wasn't sneering either.

But just criticising 'this government' for everything that's wrong with society isn't helpful, and the e-petitions started in various newspapers and online just encourage people to 'sign and resign' - i.e. they've done their bit by protesting and can pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

The fact that so many signatures means the issue has to be raised in parliament doesn't actually do anything other than clutter up debating time.