Who's fooling who or what's the difference between a rebate and a deduction

And why, when countries have introduced or been forced to introduce austerity measures, are these countries then forced to pay extra into the EU budget when they start to recover - when the EU budget increases year upon year and the EU powers-that-be have no intention of practising what they preach to member countries?

What worries me is that the UK is being made a laughing stock in Europe.

Really? It doesn't worry me in the slightest bit. The reason we are having to pay more is because the UK economy is doing better than those of other European countries, including Germany who will receive some money!
So who is having the last laugh?

Well I watched Ed Balls and George Osborne going head to head at Labours Urgent Question and it was a bit of an own goal for Labour. Even Denis Skinner didn't join in the 'Lemur hop' to ask a question, you know when he slumps in his seat it's all a load of pants.

I am now convinced it was all about semantics and political spin.

I believe it was not an assertion the rebate would apply and I believe nobody, including Balls had knowledge of that fact nor included it in their thoughts or comments prior to the actual meeting at the EU

So at the end of the day my thought is we are where we are and probably the best outcome was achieved but politicians on both sides look silly because of their incessant need to score political points.

Well, don't read it, Ana, but you can let others make up their own minds whether they want to read it or not.
Or is this another thread you control?

I think we've already had the answer, without links, thank you durhamjen.

Here's the answer!

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/halving_the_bill-36302

I think many people dont trust politicans any more.
Hence the quick rise in popularity of UKIP

NfkDumpling.

Yes basically.

As my favourite Bob Newhart would say

"You do what Walt, you owe £1.7 billion pounds and they want it in weeks"

"Why's that Walt"

"Your kidding aren't ya Walt, because your good with your money and so you have to give some to others who are crap"

"You say what Walt, It get's worse because you went without while they kept spending their money"

"That's crazy Walt"

"You say what Walt, that's not the end of it, they are corrupt and have never had their finances signed off"

"Jeeze Walt, why do you mix with these people"

"So how will you pay them Walt"

"Now you got me there Walt, You aren't going to give them £1.7 billion but £850 million because you would get 50% discount anyway"

"Your a member of the crazy gang Walt"

"Why didn't you tell them in the first place you would only give them half of what they wanted Walt". "Sure saves a lot of messing around Walt"

"AH, Because they didn't let you know before you met them you could get the discount as it was a charge they dumped on you that's never been done before"

"What makes them think you owe them money Walt"

"Now you got me feller, not just because you're good with money but because you take drugs and get your leg over "

"Jeeze Walt, Wouldn't want to be you fella"

So this year's payment has been deferred to next year and next year's rebate has been brought forward? Is that right?

So what happens next year? Do we ask to defer 2015's payment?

I understand ours better now thanks for the explanation. . But why does greece have to pay. I thought it was almost bankrupt. I'm getting to the stage were I just don't trust any politician any more. I actually think most of them are a bit sleazy. That's really sad. I'm not annoyed enough to vote ukip ......yet

We are still paying the same, in delayed instalments, but we are due a rebate anyway, so what we are actually paying is the £1.7 billion minus the rebate.

So nothing taken off the £1.7 billion (which we owe for working so hard on our austerity measures - heads you win, tails I lose scenario!).

We were due a rebate anyway. And we will not be charged interest on the £1.7 billion. How kind!

Greece also has to pay a surcharge. Having tried to drag itself out of the desperate financial situation it was in, this seems ludicrous.
Germany will get a nice rebate.

Farmers will be ordered to grow only three proscribed crops.

This is making me have a good think about what to vote in a referendum.

POGS has explained it much better than me.

What peeves me most of all is what idiots they seem to think we are. We have all been more than aware of the yearly rebate since Thatcher negotiated it back in the 80's, and as our annual payment to the EU is based on previous years GDP, it doesn't take much brain power to understand that our payment will have gone up in the past couple of years due to the fact that our economy is growing. Of course it can be spun that the rebate will reduce the payment due but which ever way you look at it - 1.7bn is due.

Yes, Pogs, I'm equally dubious. These people shower us with figures like confetti, and at the end of the day I don't trust any of 'em!

Anybody interested to see the proof of the pudding in action Ed Balls has been given permission for an urgent question re 'the surcharge' in Parliament at 3.30 p.m. Free view Channel 131for some of us.

Should be interesting if it is George Osborne and Ed Balls going face to face.

papaoscar

I didn't get such a clear answer, as you managed to do, after watching Andrew Neil on Sunday's Daily Politics. It's a minefield and I think there are aspects to it that make me shy away from 'smoke and mirrors' and calling somebody a liar.

The UK will pay 2 interest free sums in the second half of next year (2015) totalling £850 million pounds, instead of paying £1.7 billion pounds on Dec 1st (2014). The bill has been reduced by 50% because Brussels has agreed to bring forward from 2016 the rebate the UK has on all it's payments to the EU.

Ever since Margaret Thatcher Britain has been given a rebate on it's contribution's to Brussels on surcharges that rebate is worth 50% . George Osborne said it wasn't clear the rebate would apply to the £1.7 billion pound EU surcharge, other EU Finance Ministers say the rebate was never in doubt and the UK's extra surcharge payment has never changed.

So I guess it all comes down to we will be halving the actual payment of £1.7 billion pounds because of the rebate. The question is did George Osborne know that the rebate would apply to the surcharge or not and that is where, even on the Daily Politics Show it was fairly spoken about and Andrew Neil, Dan Hannan et all all could not answer that point.

What was said is the deferal is an achievement. It is a result we are paying later and it is a result we are not paying interest. It is counting the net not the gross figure by factering the rebate. It was then agreed only the EU confirmed the rebate but nobody in the bubble knew it would apply.

It's all about the semantics and it is being twisted and turned to suit political spin.

At the end of the day I for one think the whole scenario stinks.

How the hell can Greece be told it has to pay more money because it is more successful than France and Germany.

Ridiculous, the EU finances belong to a corrupt regime that hasn't had it's books signed off for years and now it comes up with figures that include prostitution and drugs money. If somebody can tell me how they can be calculated then please try.

Nice to know Germany and France are doing so badly and they obviously don't get their leg over enough.

So, drawing the thread back to its origin, who is fooling whom about this EU rebate/reduction business? The subject has now sunk back into the sea of media obscurity leaving me with the view that it was all smoke and mirrors whipped up by a right-wing government desperate to cover its electoral backside. Therefore, yes, they did try and fool us, the people, and they failed. Guilty. Next case. Call Ed Milliband!

The BBC is, and the organisation has a big reach.
Dont know about ITV, unbiased?
Sky is prob slightly right wing imo. Havent heard it said that it is.

So I would still say that the tv is mostly leftwing.
And then there is Radio 1-4

And as for that woman on Radio Four's Today programme - it's impossible to understand what her interviewees are trying to get across she interrupts so much - especially if they're Tory.

I fear it's incidents like this fiasco which puts people off politics. When we don't know what to believe or who, if anyone, is telling the truth.

How much is down to inadequate advise by civil servants who're unable to grasp the machinations of the EU.

Most of the TV is left wing - you must be joking!

I feel that we are ignored anyway.
May be wrong. Dont know a whole lot about it.

What have they taken notice of, of what we say in say the last few years?

Of course it matters, soontobe.
I'd rather be part of a system that thought this country had some good things to say than was ignored.

Don't somehow see Sky, Fox, CNN and Blomberg fitting in to left-wing dominated TV, but as I don't watch 'em I don't really know. I dont think old Auntie Beeb is so reliable these days, since she moved her troops up north.

The Independent and Observer aren't right wing, yet the Miliband crisis is on both their front pages - and neither seems very sympathetic towards him!

But never mind all that, let's just concentrate on George Osborne...

Am I right in thinking that because of their rules, Ed mIlliband cannot be replaced until after the General Election?

If most of the press is right wing[dont know for sure, I dont read that much of it], and the tv is mostly left wing[imo], that sort of balances things out? Job done?