The Bristol mother and baby

You hold those (dreaded?) emotions in too long, you are likely to pop.

I'm glad you are a saint. Buggered if I am.

You might feel anger, and in the heat of that anger you may want to apportion blame.

But blame is easy. So is being judgemental. It's far far better to hold those emotions until the facts have been established, and if anyone, or any systems are to blame, use that emotion to effect useful change.

And it's only natural to feel anger and to want to apportion blame. Someone was at fault here.

I don't think a hospital should allow a new mother to wander the hospital with her newborn in her arms. Until officially discharged they should be under the eye of the maternity staff. Too casual by far.

Good post Annie. So very sad for all concerned.

Yes. Well said, anniez.

Well said, Annie.

Things have changed so much now, in general they don't want you in hospital overnight if they can possibly help it and the staff are under continuous pressure. So many medical staff suffer stress related illness and/or give up their jobs because it is just too much.

To be honest, I think that the fact that the mother took the baby and went outside in such unsuitable clothes made it more likely that a casual glance from a member of staff would lead them to the conclude that she wanted to cuddle her baby and get a bit of fresh air. Suspicion would have been a sensible response if she'd put on her coat and outdoor shoes.

Hospitals are not prisons and the more we all complain and judge and want enquiries just increases the stress on the staff and the likelihood that the health service will become even more bureaucratic rather than caring and we all suffer then. I'm not a trained medic so I don't feel I can comment on the care she was receiving. A friend of mine retrained as a midwife a few years back and only worked for a year after which she said she felt under such pressure because of staff shortages and little back up. She felt she was put in the position where she was being left to make important decisions for which she was unprepared and unsupported. Such a waste of money all round.

I feel for the father, desperately sad. And for her family of course.

When DGD was born in the US, she had an electronic tag around her ankle. If anyone had attempted to take her out of the ward, the doors would automatically lock and set off an alarm.

An awful lot of people seem to wander out of hospital in slippers and dressing gowns to smoke. Even clutching a baby. It's a common sight here to see staff leaning against walls smoking as I think they are not supposed to smoke in the grounds of the hospital.

I wonder just how much the maternity hospital knew, as schizophrenic and high risk new mums who present a danger to themselves and the child are not usually kept on general maternity wards, but in specialist locked wards under the care of consultant and psychiatric nurse. This mum's decision to drop her meds so she could breastfeed her baby was not necessarily appropriate, but could have been managed under close psychiatric care. The news that she was due to be discharged doesn't quite fit with this scenario. The investigation will bring all this out, but I won't be rushing to judge this maternity hospital, where she was being cared for on a general ward.

Agree.There is a time and a place and at the moment quiet reflection on the sadness might be more in order.

I find it sad that so many people are quick to rush to judgement without being in possession of all the facts. It simply isn't possible to draw conclusions from viewing a short video clip, neither is it possible to assert that those in the hospital should have behaved in one way or another. We simply don't know, and until the results of the enquiry are known I think it's best to refrain from condemnation and save our breath for sympathy to all those with connection to this tragic family.

Yes, certainly true, merlotgran. Maybe NHS cuts have a part to play as well. There are also a lot of agency nurses on evening shifts and I don't think that was so much the case years ago (though please correct me if that's not the case).

What struck me was that the CCTV footage showed the young mother walking down a deserted corridor, turning right (presumably into the nursery) then walking out of the hospital carrying the baby. The only time I spotted a nurse was a cluster of them standing in front of a vending machine just inside the entrance.

I'm not in a position to criticise the hospital but I can't help casting my mind back to when my children were born and nurses were ever present. There's no way anyone would have been able to casually walk out of a hospital wearing paper slippers, no outdoor clothing and clutching a baby.

Totally agree, jingl, and though I concede that the full facts aren't yet known, it's a fact that two people are now dead who needn't have been. Assuming that her mental health state was known to the staff, which it most definitely would have been, I find it hard to understand how she a) was going to be discharged so early and b) was allowed to walk out unnoticed from the hospital with her baby.
As I said before, I have had personal experience of lack of care of my mentally vulnerable daughter in another hospital, but I hoped that experience wasn't common, shocking though it was. And no, maternity wards are not psychiatric wards but mental illness is widespread enough. It doesn't disappear when you go into labour and any ongoing care needs to be continued. To fail a patient at this stage could be dangerous. I have no idea whether or not this happened, but hopefully the review will uncover the truth and ensure that this tragedy is less likely to happen in the future.

Totally agree jingle

We know that a mother walked out carrying her four day old baby, wearing a dressing gown and hospital slippers, and no one thought to ask where she was going. Even though, going by the camera stills, she passed several members of staff who didn't give her a second glance. Says a lot about our hospitals. And their caring attitude.

Because 'anyone and everyone' does not have enough information at this time, about this tragedy, to make any sort of judgement about the hospital, or the hospital staff, jingl.

Anyone and everyone is entitled to say what they think about an NHS hospital. Why not? Our taxes pay for them.

Rowantree you have no right to make such damning comments about the hospital - nor does anyone else, unless they are privy to confidential information about the management of this young woman's obstetric history and mental health problems.

Totally tragic! A devastating situation for everyone involved.

I understand it is nearly impossible to keep anyone with severe mental illness in a hospital unless they are sectioned and within a secure hospital. A dear friend's husband was 'voluntarily sectioned' when he'd attempted suicide which meant he could leave at any time. Full sectioning is very difficult to get instigated.
When he was discharged he couldn't engage with the MH team and sadly killed himself weeks later.
As a midwife I know just how very difficult it is to care for a new mother in such circumstances. Am sure everyone would have done all they could but sometimes it just isn't enough. Awful, awful situation for everyone.

Maternity wards do not treat mental illness, possibly there was a shortage of beds and there was no bed for her in a mental health hospital , over 1,000 beds have been cut in England alone for mental health and only a few days ago a senior police officer was on the news voicing his anger that a sixteen year old girl with serious problems had to be kept in a police cell because there was not one bed in the UK for her,