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2015 Election - antidotes?

(240 Posts)
papaoscar Mon 05-Jan-15 13:32:18

Try this for size if you are already sick of the Tories pre-election spin and lies:

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-camerons-election-plots-show-4919877

magpie123 Tue 06-Jan-15 16:10:01

papaoscar so in your opinion Balls and Co are our only hope, God help us then.

They are the only ones who will bankrupt Britain again and bring us to our knees.

Get in the real world!

rosesarered Tue 06-Jan-15 16:28:27

papaoscar, I'm afraid that we don't all hold your views !

rosesarered Tue 06-Jan-15 16:29:24

My antidote to the election onslaught would be a large bottle of something very alchoholic.

Brendawymms Tue 06-Jan-15 16:32:56

Bring back some of the last generation politicians, Tony Benn, Barbara Castle and Shirley Williams and or course dear Ann Widdecombe. Why have I listed mostly women. ,!!!!!!

FlicketyB Tue 06-Jan-15 17:33:40

DH and I are running a competition on a daily basis to see who is the first to hear a politician refer to 'hard working' families.

I have never seen a definition of this term. Is it a eupemism for being in work? In which case are all the City Link employees who were 'hardworking' until they were redundant now reclassified as not hardworking now they have been made redundant? How about the retired and disabled, those without families are we hardworking or not hardworking. Having decided who are sheep and who are goats, what are the non-hardworking going to be excluded from because they are not ardworking.

In other words this stupid cliche used only by mind dead politicians i totally meaningless.

annodomini Tue 06-Jan-15 17:40:56

Sorry*Brenda*, Tony Benn and Barbara Castle are not available unless you want a government of the living dead. No.... wait.... hmm

whitewave Tue 06-Jan-15 18:11:09

magpie is your real world our Gideon then?

rosequartz Tue 06-Jan-15 18:13:04

papa we are looking for an antidote to it all .......... all suggestions gratefully received! grin

roses we could all be in a state of alcoholic poisoning by May if we aren't careful if it carries on the way it has started.

papaoscar Tue 06-Jan-15 18:13:38

Write out one thousand times and learn by heart - "Balls & Co were not responsible for the world financial crisis. That was caused by those greedy Tory capitalists".

Ana Tue 06-Jan-15 18:17:52

Ah, that's the message Ed's hoping to impress upon the 4m households he intends to doorstep, is it papaoscar? Perhaps he's going to hypnotise them all...grin

magpie123 Tue 06-Jan-15 18:27:17

Cabinet Office minister David Laws made public the glib note, left by outgoing Treasury chief secretary Liam Byrne for his successor.

It states: ‘Dear Chief Secretary, I’m afraid there is no money. Kind regards – and good luck! Liam.’

TOUCHE

whitewave Tue 06-Jan-15 18:42:13

No, it is Gideon's slight of hand ensuring us that the economy is safe in his hands. Hmm how much are we in debt and how big is the deficit and what did he say would be the case by this time in the current parliament. Wrong wrong wrong.
His makeup must be getting in the way of his thought processes.

Labour,s % of Debt to GDP in 2007 was about 36%. In the previous Tory government it was as high as 50%.
In 2008 the British government - for that read tax payer - bailed out the banks after the crash to the tune of £500bn and our debt soared.

Labour's handling of the economy and the banking crash was recognised by many in the world and copied as they tried to tackle the world/banking crises. To say that Labour was at fault for the subsequent debt and deficit is simplistic in the extreme.

What Gideon however is trying to do is to reduce the state to a pre-war level - this has absolutely nothing to do with the good handling of the economy and everything to do with Tory ideology.

whitewave Tue 06-Jan-15 18:42:57

magpie - he was correct - please read my post above.

papaoscar Tue 06-Jan-15 19:29:29

So long as we realise that we are all subject to rogering by the spinners. I think Churchill is reputed to have said that that the truth is so precious it must be surrounded by a bodyguard of lies - and he certainly knew a thing or two about managing publicity in bad times.

durhamjen Tue 06-Jan-15 20:12:51

Fact check about the first posters to go up.

https://fullfact.org/factcheck/economy/campaign_posters_full_picture-37962

rosesarered Tue 06-Jan-15 20:18:31

Lawks a mercy! it's going to be a ghastly few months until May.I'm off now [with a large bottle] and may not be back for some time.

durhamjen Tue 06-Jan-15 20:28:28

Don't drink too much, roses. You'll become a binge drinker.

FlicketyB Wed 07-Jan-15 07:40:34

papaoscar Gordon Brown and co contributed to the financial mess we got into by their refusal to set up proper financial controls on banks and building societies. The collapse of Northern Rock and several other Building Societies was an entirely UK disaster. The result of lax control by government established regulatory bodies. Many economic and financial experts and pundits were warning for several years about the dangers of excessive mortgage loans and the increase in personal debt. The government actively chose not to take any action.

Gordon Brown also chose to follow an economic policy that required heavy borrowing and a large current deficit, you know, the deficit and debt that are causing so much problem at the moment. He was gambling on the economy continuing to grow rapidly and paying the debt out of that growth.

Several countries, including Canada, where financial governance was under the control of the man who is now Governor of the bank of England, managed to not be devastated by the financial disaster.

The cause of the financial collapse was a slovenly lack of financial control by governments of all political persuasions in the USA, UK, and other European countries that enabled the greedy and unscrupulous in the banking industry to make billions at the expense of the rest of us.

Remember Peter Mandelson famously saying that he was ‘intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich’? Well, we know how they were getting 'filthy rich'.

whitewave Wed 07-Jan-15 10:08:45

flick read my post above. You are wrong when you say that the last Labour government caused the collapse of the the British banks - who caused the collapse of other banks in the world?

The entire world zeitgeist at the time was to give the banks more and more freedom. This ideology was mainly started by Thatcher, Regan and cohorts. Are you saying that Labour were wrong in following Tory policy? No- one foresaw the disaster as can be seen from the Bank of England minutes, written the day before Northern Rock collapsed. The BofE has access to the best advisors so I am not sure where your "many economic experts" comes from. However undoubtedly our type of system is cyclical and downturns happen on a regular basis, absolutely nothing governments do will stop that.

Because of the relaxation of banking controls undoubtedly personal debt got out of control. But the banks decision to become highly leveraged was their decision and their decision alone. We are now paying the price.

Britains % of debt to GDP IN 2007 roughly 36% - compare this to the previous Tory government who at one stage has debt to GDP at 50%.
It was the Labour government's decision to save the British banking system by bailing the banks that caused the levels of debt we experienced immediately after the crash. Of course you could argue that they should not have done this, but it would need a brave person indeed to argue that.

papaoscar Wed 07-Jan-15 11:22:34

You're so right, FB, when you write:

"The cause of the financial collapse was a slovenly lack of financial control by governments of all political persuasions in the USA, UK, and other European countries that enabled the greedy and unscrupulous in the banking industry to make billions at the expense of the rest of us."

I have little confidence in the Socialists to re-launch the UK sensibly, but I have no confidence at all in the Tories to do it - they get too much out of the status-quo to want to change it. Until we can devise a better system of government and fiscal control things will not change. In the old days a 'mixed economy' was in force but that is no longer the fashion, due to the dominance of unrestrained worldwide capitalism. In the meantime I'll rejoin my Muppet friends Waldorf and Statler on the balcony and pour scorn on the lot of 'em!

papaoscar Wed 07-Jan-15 11:45:47

So what to do against the relentless tide of political spin and electioneering? Ignore it or put the boot in? Shout out when you feel like it, or turn the other cheek when you don't? Take up line-dancing? Reach out for the bottle and/or the sick bag, but keeping them well separate? At my age could I care less, except as regards my grandchildren's future and that of their peers. In my lifetime I've seen the prospects for ordinary, decent people improve but now start to recede again. Perhaps its all cyclical after all in which case I'd better pop out and buy myself a new bike!

papaoscar Wed 07-Jan-15 11:46:56

Just had a thought - bring back Spitting Image!

whitewave Wed 07-Jan-15 11:52:36

papa it was nothing to do with slovenly lack of financial control - the whole movement at the time was towards lesser banking control started as I said by Regan and Thatcher etc. The subsequent governments simply continued with the process as there was nothing that suggested that this was a wrong move and the world economy was buzzing if you remember with the odd blip.
Banks of course were enthusiastic and gave governments every insurance that it was the correct course of action in order to ensure a vibrant and growing economy. Evidence seemed to suggest that they were correct.

Of course retrospectively we can see that the banks behaved totally irresponsibly and hopefully they have now been brought back into control, with leverage at a manageable level.

The Tories reliance on supply side economics obviously does nothing to address the lack of growth in the economy - which has resulted in such a slow recovery over the past 5 years. What is needed is an injection of fiscal policy in order to for the government to take control over and encourage growth in the economy based on one which is not reliant on personal debt, something which is what evidence suggests to happening once again.

papaoscar Wed 07-Jan-15 12:23:26

Beg to respectfully differ, whitewave, it was entirely due to slovenly regulation. Since the days of the South Sea Bubble, spivs and con-men, ah-hem, sorry,speculators and entrepreneurs, have got rich on our basic greed, so we're probably all a little bit at fault. I just don't like being force-fed crap by rich hypocrites.

Eloethan Wed 07-Jan-15 12:42:19

www.theguardian.com/business/video/2014/nov/13/channel-4-news-economics-editor-paul-mason-banks-forex-rigging-video

We tend to think that the banking sector is now under control. I think there is a lot of evidence to suggest that it is not. The above link is to a very outspoken Paul Mason, Channel 4 economics editor, who is clearly hugely frustrated at the way in which the City continues to get away with criminal behaviour.

Labour was far too lax about banking regulations BUT at the time the Conservatives were criticising Labour for not allowing financial regulations to be relaxed even further. Of course, it is still the case the Conservative Party is by far the largest recipient of donations from the banking sector.

My understanding is also that the recommendation that the "gambling"/potentially "toxic" side of a bank's business should be completely separated out from conventional/safer banking practices have not, in the main, been followed.