Breaking News - Allegedly 10 people killed at office of satirical magazine in Paris

There was a British satirical cartoonist on television today who said that the problem with extremists is that they can't bear to be laughed at and so "we should laugh them into the dustbin of history" I am inclined to agree with him.

Our freedom of speech is one of the marks of a civilized society.

Or being free to tell other people what your beliefs are.

I've never understood "expressing one's beliefs" to mean hurling abuse at people, soon, so I'm not sure I understand your post mentioning that.

I thought being free to express one's beliefs meant one was free to go to church and things like that.

Simply what Absent?

Killing someone for ridiculing one's beliefs is still murder.

Expressing one's beliefs is not abuse. Expressing one's lack of belief is not abuse.

Disagreeing with the tenets of someone else's beliefs is not abuse. We have free will, freedom to believe or not, freedom to question the validity of an assumption that is part of what someone else believes.

Abusing the holder of a different belief because they hold it IS abuse.

Killing someone because of their belief, or because they do not have the same belief, is more than abuse, it is murder.

I was replying to your first post.

I agree thatbags.

Except for "Free to express one's beliefs".

If for instance anyone wanted to hurl abuse at you repeatedly, is that ok by you?

And another:

All bullies, abusers & killers blame their victims for the appalling things they do to them. Never believe them.

The essence of a tweet I saw today, and completely agree with:

Free to believe
Free not to believe
Free to express one's beliefs
Free to question and criticise any and all beliefs, one's own or those of others.

and here's another:

You are entitled to be offended by words or cartoons.
You are not entitled to injure, oppress, or kill just because you're offended.

France has a long-standing tradition of political satire and the cartoon of Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is surely a part of that culture. IS, of which he is the leader, is a brutal organisation that is killing and enslaving Sharia Moslems and others in the Middle East on a daily basis as part of its overweening plan to establish a strict caliphate and suppress other cultural and religious norms. Any criticism of the organisation and/or its leader will always be regarded as abhorrent by its adherents and to suggest that reining in such criticism would be sensible is simply footling. Perhaps the response here to this unjustifiable and bloody attack would have been different if the action had been taken against a reputable newspaper that had written a scathing article about this truly evil man.

I heard an interview with a Muslim man from the Quilliam Foundation today. This organisation represents Muslims trying to counteract extremism within their community. He made the point, that although this was his religion he felt that society should be able critique it without fear of demonising the Muslim population as a whole, or without fear of repercussions such as those carried out today. He made perfect sense and I wish we could hear more from people like him.

I have felt that there are some posters here on GN who will come down like a ton of bricks on anyone who posts negative comments about Islam, something I feel they possibly wouldn't do if it was a criticism made about Christianity.

Of not or

Perhaps one reason moderate Muslims don't speak out is fear or retribution from either peers or these inhuman barbaric sects?

"I just think what has happened in Paris today is a hell of a price to pay for being provocative...."

It's the price you pay for brainwashing children with religious mumbo jumbo in the first place. By the time they're grown up and have a gun in their hand it's too late.

"I don't know all that many Muslims very well but none of them as yet seem to be vociferous in their outrage."

As I said above, a Muslim I worked with seemed quite benign until someone mentioned Salman Rushdie.

"God decides what is wrong" - whose particular god did you have in mind, given that these terrorists are acting in the name of their god?

I share mcem's frustration with these sort of platitudes.

Sorry - that was a comment on a much earlier post.

I agree with mcem above but, on the other hand, let's not constrain posters from posting, eh? Free speech?

There they go again...political leaders condemning, standing together..and doing nothing.

There's a thought, Stansgran. ('...perhaps moderate Muslims are happy for this to be done in their name?') A truly chilling thought, that one. Why, indeed, are senior non-violent Muslims not speaking out? Incidentally, I hope the people at Private Eye are taking suitable precautions tonight.

In the light of hideous events like those we've seen so recently I'd like to register the fact that I'm offended by such horrors perpetrated in the name of any religion but I'm also offended by some of the naive and simplistic remarks I've read. Trotting out trite phrases like 'it's all about love' or 'god decides what is wrong' achieves nothing.

If one takes part in a debate one should offer comments which are fully thought-through and not simply repeat meaningless mantras. I respect those who offer forthright opinions and who go on to defend and justify those opinions with passion and I have no problem if we disagree.

There may be limits on free speech, set by a sense of decency, or by the law. Those limits should never include the death penalty.

I hope those in power manage to keep a lid on this..... These attacks are stirring up a storm.

What about the thought that perhaps moderate Muslims are happy for this to be done in their name?
I don't know all that many Muslims very well but none of them as yet seem to be vociferous in their outrage. It will be interesting to see in days to come the response of the various councils . I feel so sorry for the woman who punched in the code to let them in.

"God decides what is wrong."

Do you have any evidence for that?

Utterly, utterly sickening and beyond my comprehension. Absolutely agree Riverwalk