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Charlie Hebdo: are our leaders taking us for fools?

(126 Posts)
MamaCaz Sat 17-Jan-15 17:54:02

Our leaders went to Paris to show solidarity following the Charlie Hebdo attacks, but it seems yet again that things weren't quite as we were led to believe.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-march-tv-wide-shots-reveal-a-different-perspective-on-world-leaders-at-largest-demonstration-in-frances-history-9972895.html

Yes, they were there, but not in the way that many of us imagined, or perhaps more importantly, were encouraged to believe!
In a way, I sympathise; They were there, they showed their support, but perhaps reasonably were kept at a safe distance and not expected to give up a whole day of their time to it.
In all honesty, I'm not sure how I feel about this, given the difference between what we've been led to believe and the reality. confused

What does everyone else think?

POGS Mon 19-Jan-15 20:19:00

The 'Eric Pickles Letter'. was perfectly in order to some Muslim Leaders and not to others. There has been a lot of debate on this letter on the 24 hour news today and it has been interesting to hear their views. This is media stirring the s--t once again. angry

I don't think it was in any way shape or form out of order and I will stick with those Muslims who have also said they find no Ill intention in either it's wording nor intention.

Talk about sublime to the ridiculous, let me see now Charlie Hebdo versus Eric Pickles, hmm.

Ana Mon 19-Jan-15 20:11:14

Where in the letter does he say, or suggest, that 'Muslims are not British'? confused

absent Mon 19-Jan-15 19:55:30

It rather begs the question of what constitutes British identity.

rosequartz Mon 19-Jan-15 19:55:06

|^That's how I interpreted it, anyway.^
We can all put our own interpretation on anything.

rosequartz Mon 19-Jan-15 19:54:14

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/eric-pickles-letter-to-muslim-leaders-the-text-in-full-9987249.html

Here it is in full, which comes across a bit different to the slant the Guardian put on it.
I can't see anywhere where he said that.

durhamjen Mon 19-Jan-15 19:41:31

What do you think of Eric Pickles sending a letter to Muslim leaders suggesting Muslims are not British?

www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2015/jan/19/eric-pickles-right-send-muslim-letter-david-cameron-video

That's how I interpreted it, anyway.

rosequartz Mon 19-Jan-15 19:24:46

There are different degrees of need and, in any case, isn't it possible to help both those nearby and those far away.

I agree, absent but if it is true that the belief of Islam is to help only those who are nearest then people may question why we are trying to help the those in need everywhere.
The religion of a needy child matters not a jot to me, I just want to do my tiny bit to help.

soontobe Mon 19-Jan-15 19:13:36

Tresco asked a question Soutra.

soontobe Mon 19-Jan-15 19:12:26

I made a thread for people to ask me questions on. But many or most posters dont want to ask them on there.
And having enquired of gransnet, they say that posters can ask questions anywhere.

Soutra Mon 19-Jan-15 19:09:30

Have I missed something? How did the Bible come into this conversation?

absent Mon 19-Jan-15 19:04:03

Not again, please.

Tresco Mon 19-Jan-15 19:02:48

So why do so many clergy and theologians differ on their interpretations?

soontobe Mon 19-Jan-15 18:56:59

If you read enough of the bible you get more than enough idea of what is meant.
Granted, you still end up with little parts of it that have not come down through the ages well.

As I have said before, on a different thread I think, there are many people with additional needs who become christians. Their faith is just as deep and meaningful as any other christian in the congregation. They understand the bible plenty well enough.

And no one is expected to understand fully every single verse in the bible.

Soutra Mon 19-Jan-15 18:56:57

Has anybody asked anybody to change the Bible?

absent Mon 19-Jan-15 18:54:24

There are different degrees of need and, in any case, isn't it possible to help both those nearby and those far away.

Going back to the OP, obviously world leaders were never going to march in among (or leading) the group of "ordinary" people, given that they normally ride around in bullet-proof cars, led and followed by motorcycle outriders, usually on roads that have been cleared in advance. This was purely a photo op to show their caring side that has come back to bite them in the bum – if such a thing is possible.

Tresco Mon 19-Jan-15 18:51:23

soontobe Do you read your bible in the original language in which it was written? Because if you don't, you are changing it, to a greater or lesser degree depending on the translation. And then there have always been different interpretations of even apparently straightforward parts. For example, the commandment "Thou shalt not kill" has been interpreted as "Thou shalt not murder" but as permitting judicial executions and military action. In previous posts you seem to be have been unaware of church history and the way the content of what we now call the Bible changed at various times, according to decisions made by leading churchmen of the day.

soontobe Mon 19-Jan-15 18:40:11

I am unable to change the bible.

Ariadne Mon 19-Jan-15 18:04:50

"The sign of intelligence is that you are constantly wondering. Idiots are always dead sure about every damn thing they are doing in their life."
-Vasudev

bags quoted this on another thread, and I think it is quite apt here,a s we discuss beliefs and different approaches to them.

rosequartz Mon 19-Jan-15 17:44:55

Perhaps if Abramovich was living next door he would think you were needy and help you out Soutra.

is pretty much the Islamic view of charity - they say your duty is to aid the needy person nearest to you. So should I stop sending aid to the Syrian refugee camps for people who are Muslim or Christian?

feetlebaum Mon 19-Jan-15 17:18:25

And then in some Islamic countries, being needy is a profession - honourable because it gives an opportunity for someone to be charitable!

Soutra Mon 19-Jan-15 16:56:59

I suppose I can see that at one level, but if what'sis name Abramovich was my next door neighbour, it would do no harm to look further afield for the truly needy. No?

feetlebaum Mon 19-Jan-15 16:45:22

@Soon - said "There are people in my own area that need help.
There are always people in your own street and neighbourhood that need help."

That, it was explained to me in Muscat, is pretty much the Islamic view of charity - they say your duty is to aid the needy person nearest to you.

Soutra Mon 19-Jan-15 16:31:50

I think this has been a big misconception by British governments -and no doubt others- down the centuries. (My enemy's enemy...etc) The Russians in WW II being a prime example and from reading Gertrude Bell, the same applied in the Middle East over 100 years ago.

rosequartz Mon 19-Jan-15 10:44:59

Only when it suits, soutra.

FarNorth Mon 19-Jan-15 04:47:19

In answer to the OP, I think it was perfectly reasonable that the world leaders were not in the march with the ordinary people.
It would have been a huge security risk and could also have looked like it was hijacking the efforts of those ordinary people.