Discussion of the word racist

As regards POGS post of 17.12, do you think that police non action was because of her first point, or her second?

crun. Crumbs, she went for it!

I am saying that where there is very obvious evidence of crimes being committed, irrespective of possibly being called a racist, people whose job it is to protect the vulnerable and implement the law - and particularly the police who witnessed these young girls hanging around groups of Asian men late at night, on the street, in cars and in hotel rooms, often in a drunken/drugged state - should have done their jobs.

My feeling is the responsibility to take action was ultimately the police's since they were the only ones who could actually take these men in for questioning and use the law to stop this abuse. There is a difference between temporarily holding back from taking action when unfounded statements - that may be entirely motivated by prejudice - are made about a particular group of people. I can understand the police would be reluctant, and probably rightly so, to pursue matters that had absolutely no evidential basis. But there were glaringly obvious signs of child exploitation, many of which police officers had seen with their own eyes, and allegations and pleas for help made by the victims and their parents, which should have been properly investigated.

soon makes a valid point, not all that difficult to comprehend.

Look what happened to Cumberbatch recently. His fulsome apology was probably made because he feared being labelled a racist to the detriment of his career.

Yes to all 3.

This thread is doubling up now on the other 2 threads that have spoken of Rotherham.

I think soon is asking a wider question re the use of the word 'racism'.

When the word racism is made accusingly does it stop debate./ discussion.

Does the use of the word racism create a fear factor and stop people taking necessary actions.

Has the word racist now become so widely/easily used it has caused issues that are creating barriers to good governance and welfare because of the above.

Perhaps I am wrong but I want to reaffirm my earlier post and say yes to all 3.

Eloethan

I can read your post two ways.

Are you saying that you do not believe that people were afraid of being called racist, it does not happen.

Or are you saying you do understand but they should have been brave enough to not consider it and should have done their job irrespective of being called racist.

Eloethan I do agree with you that there is no excuse for this being allowed to carry on with no prosecutions being brought. However I can believe that a fear of being accused of racism is what kept staff at ground level from highlighting the organised nature of this abuse. The few that were brave enough to try were quickly got rid of.

Mishap your experience mirrors my own, especially where you talk about the fear of condemnation and the very real risk of disciplinary action if one said anything that could be construed as racist, all of which is still going on today. At times in one particular authority I felt as though I had walked into 17th century Salem with people of all backgrounds seemingly competing to 'out' others for making inappropriate remarks or acting in some vaguely inappropriate manner. It's very difficult to convey how scary it is to work in that sort of climate, where it's not only impossible to do your job properly but also harmful to your mental health.

However, whilst all this undoubtedly contributed to the horrific sexual exploitation of hundreds and hundreds of children continuing for so long unchecked, the real blame lies with a corrupt council that has been found 'not fit for purpose' and with those at the very top who conspired to cover up what was going on under their noses for their own reasons. It will undoubtedly be the tip of the iceberg.

soontobe I think there are probably a number of reasons why people did nothing.

Some of it seemed to be ignorance of the law - police appeared not to understand (or chose to ignore) that an underage girl is not, in law, able to give "consent". This lack of basic understanding of the law seemed also, surprisingly, to have been present in social services. I recall a mother of one of these girls reporting that when she had urged social workers to do something about her daughter's abuse and exploitation, she had been told that her daughter had made a "life style choice".

I remember there was also evidence in the report which demonstrated that the police disapproved of these girls' behaviour - associating with Asian men, drinking and taking drugs, etc. - and had no sympathy for their predicament. They weren't seen as vulnerable children but as troublemakers who'd brought all their problems on themselves.

I feel it's pathetic for an adult to say they were frightened of being accused of making unfounded, racist allegations, when there was plenty of evidence to prove that criminal activity was taking place on a huge scale. On one (of many similar) occasions, police officers had found a very drunk girl in a state of undress in a hotel room with several Asian men. Girls had made reports of being physically abused and threatened but nothing was done. Surely this shows there was simply a lack of will to properly investigate and severely deal with these incidents?

"....having worked for almost 40 years for local authorities, I find it very believable that people at all levels would be afraid of being labelled as racist."

You are so right nightowl - the rubbish that was flung around in LAs beggars belief. I too was in SSD and we had this rammed down our throats till we were sick of it. I used to say that the guiding principle of social work should simply be that each person is treated as an individual and with respect. For me that covers a non-racist stance without all the fuss that we were subjected to.

We were expected to try and learn the mores and customs of the different groups of people whom we might meet. I felt that this was in itself unacceptable because it involved treating people as if they were a homogenous group. I just used to say to individuals "I am not an expert on your customs and I will need you to help me if I have misunderstood or said something amiss." Never seemed to be a problem. They appreciated being asked.

I am not at all surprised that this problem arose in Rotherham - the threat of disciplinary action if you stepped out of line in any way was very real; and the condemnation of any hint of racism was pounced on, even if what had been said or done was entirely innocent. Things simply went too far, as often happens with these things. It is a pendulum which swings to the extremes before settling to some reasonable equilibrium.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy-Ap4LQB-4

Absolutely!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31130750

Perhaps everyone will stop pussyfooting around now and start taking an equal and unbiased stance against crimes such as these.

That includes anyone of any colour, race or creed - such as the powerful and those with friends in high places.

yummygranny Fri 06-Feb-15 10:50:12
One thing that has not been mentioned, is that the behaviour of Rotherham Council and other authorative bodies, far from being PC as they thought, is actually racist. Racism means treating an ethnic group differently by dint of their race: therefore, to avoid prosecuting criminals because they are Asian and muslim is RACIST, because you are making a discriminatory decision on the basis of race. If you are truly non-racist, you treat everyone equally, for good or bad, regardless of creed, colour or race. I just can't understand why this hasn't been pointed out by the media

yummygranny agreed that I could copy and paste this here.
Which ties in with what some of feetlebaum posted.

Let's hope that now this has been blown apart, in the future the fear of being labelled will not prevent people taking appropriate action at the appropriate time. Incidentally I understand perfectly where soon is coming from and the original posting seems perfectly clear and and logical to me. Just thought I'd say!!!

Agreed feetlebaum.

Elegran. I am not sure that I personally want to stop the use of the word racist.

But I definitely do want some people, whoever they are, to realise that the fear of the word, does stop people acting where appropriate.

Higher ups especially are scared to act.

Eleothan.*Social workers, council officials and police officers did nothing about it*
In your opinion, why didnt they all act?

Sadly Eloethan, having worked for almost 40 years for local authorities, I find it very believable that people at all levels would be afraid of being labelled as racist. I can easily believe that lower grade social workers in rotherham were instructed to adapt what they wrote to avoid 'heightening racial tensions'. Rotherham is far from unique in this respect.

I still don't know what this thread is going on about.

A 'racist' is usually someone who starts by saying 'I'not a racist, BUT...'

As far as I am concerned there is only race - the human one, that came out of Africa... it has been truly said, we are all Africans!

Having lived in the north west, I can recall many instances of racist behaviour and speech - I don't recall anyone (including police officers) being concerned that they might be labelled racist. I was shocked to find that the use of the term "Paki" was quite common and acceptable - even partners in the law firm for which I worked used it.

It is a truly ridiculous argument to say that people in authority were "afraid of being called racist". Young women, under the age of consent, were being raped, abused, terrorised, and exploited in full view of the community. Social workers, council officials and police officers did nothing about it, and police officers were reported to have made comments to the effect that the girls were "asking for it" and their sexual exploitation was "consensual". The only organisation that tried to stop this was Risky Business and they were obstructed in their efforts. It was only when the whole matter blew up that people started trying to justify their behaviour as a response to "political correctness".

I agree with jingl and nigglynellie.
I am glad that people are able to put, what I am trying to say, in better words than I am able to.

That's not excusing or condoning. Just stating a fact.

As nigglynellie has already said.

I think soon means people are afraid of being called racist. And so don't act when they should.

Might be right in the Rotherham case.

soon you say that reports of abuse were ignored by those in a position to do something about it, because they were afraid if being labelled racist

That sounds as though you are excusing their behaviour.
There is no excuse.
By excusing it you are condoning it - not the abuse itself, no one would do that, but the abdication of responsibility and accountability of those in positions where they were entrusted to uphold the law and the systems of protection that are in place in this country to prevent such things.