Hunting

Phoenix thanks.

Jane10 gransnet boards are full of emotive subjects, illness, death, divorce, are you surprised by all of them too?
There is nothing wrong with a healthy debate and I noticed you posted several times on this thread.
Shall we just talk about fashion, make-up cookery and how to get the washing white, in case somebody gets emotional?

Can't say I entirely agree with this, either "nature is quite capable of self control"

Much native British woodland is under threat, as deer have no natural predators and love to eat saplings, thus preventing them growing into mature trees.

I suppose because its such an emotive subject I was very surprised at the thread topic at all as it was so likely to lead to the sort of responses it got (not just from me!)

A bit late coming to this, and I'm going to refer back to page 1.

I thought mrsmopps question was well phrased, to my mind at least, it seemed to be made in a sort of open, general way and to accuse her of trying to start some sort of argument was a bit OTT and expressed in a somewhat belligerent way!

Those who are familiar with what I usually post or comment on will know that it is pretty rare for me to make this type of post.

The activity of fox hunting itself is hardly unobtrusive?

I know you're right anni on the campaigning front, posters are put up and pertinent people contacted, but what you don't get is people coming from far and wide to protest outside (and inside if they can) the gates of a particular place or try to disrupt what is happening by confrontation. The other day we even had a police helicopter overhead, the clash was that bad. I don't think the protesters front up the puppy farmers or slaughter house staff, or any other suspect establishment. So why just Fox hunting?

I admire you enormously Anniebach. I do a lot of talking and writing, but not much doing. You're an inspiration

Jane10

pompa sorry I did not mean that you were in any way intentionally cruel nor do you relish it. I must have written it in a confusing way. Sorry again. Meanwhile go annie!

Nigglynellie , I assure you people are campaigning daily against animal cruelty, you spoke of the brutality shorecently in a slaughter house but you were not aware it was an animal rights group who got in there and filmed it. As for puppy farms, you obviously have not the foggiest how much is done to change the laws and what campaigners are up against . Every day there are people driving around the country rescuing dogs, filming disgusting breeding farms, raising money etc. We did get a tightening up in the nineties but not as much as hoped for. As long as people are willing to buy these puppies there will be people eager to produce them. I speak as someone who worked for the NCDL now dogs trust with the news of the world, we went into these farms and it was hell , I even had a shot gun pointed at me by one idiot farmer. After the foot and mouth more farmers applied for licences to breed puppies, the bitches are kept in barns bred from twice a year untill they are exhausted, then if they can't be sold for a few pounds they are shot

I have posted too much sorry, but I feel so strongly about animal cruelty , and the kennel club are hypocritical too by the by

I too hate cruelty to all animals, but what gets to me is that Fox hunting is selected out of a host of other equally if not worse cruelties, pursued vociferously to the point of hysteria, whereas anything else is just not even mentioned including puppy farms!! Surely protesters should be blocking and harassing these awful places run by people whose only aim is to make as much money as possible out of the misery of these poor dogs. The whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. Foxes need to be kept under control, as do magpies, mink and other countryside killers, and for me hunting is the least cruel way to do this when considering the alternatives.

I take that as a personal attack Jane10.
I am NOT knowingly cruel to fish, as I stated, the fish I catch are killed far more quickly and humanely than commercial fishing and are eaten.

At least I am prepared to kill what I eat, not leave it to some one else to do the deed. If we are prepared to eat animals, we should be prepared to kill them.

Nigglynellie, it was an animal rights group who filmed the recent atrocities at a slaughter house, so you are mistaken to claim we never see protesters at slaughter houses. You use the age old but weakest argument to defend fox hunting, class has nothing to do with it, neither does cuddly and cute

I've never understood why some animals are considered vermin and some aren't. I've always been against any cruel so called "sport". As previous posters have noted its the relish in the cruelty that's so sickening. No class attitude from me. I'm an equal opportunities anti cruelty person! I hate everyone who is knowingly cruel to animals. I like foxes and rats too.

Because IMO, most of our population live in towns and cities, town dweller's see rats as vermin whilst foxes are pretty and cuddly and not considered vermin.

I totally agree with you pompa! Also a final query. Why is it acceptable to use terriers to flush out rats prior to shooting or clubbing them, and not foxes?!! Pretty horrible on both fronts, but no protesters for the rat. Hypocrisy again I'd say!!!!

You are quite correct about the cruelty involved in commercial fishing, fish are dragged up from the depths, their swim bladders probably rupture due to the sudden change in pressure, they them suffocate to death over many minutes or even hours. But most of us happily eat our cod and chips. Is this not hypocritical.

Even so called "line caught fish" are not killed quickly and may be left on the line for days.

All of this can be seen if you watch the many programmes about commercial fishing (Trawler men etc)

I fish for trout, unless they are undersize and must be returned, they are killed outright within 30 seconds of being caught. Where possible any fish that has to be returned is unhooked in the water and is no handled.
I do not fish for coarse fish as I object to the way fish (especially by carp anglers) are treated.

Without anglers many of our waterways would be polluted, anglers are key in prosecutions against polluters, many of which are the water companies (untreated sewage) OK, this campaign could have been taken up by some other group, but it wasn't. So you have anglers to thank for the return of the otter etc. into our clean rivers.
See :- fishlegal.net/

I will now get off my soap box and leave.

So committing an animal to cruelty is ok so long as it's for commercial reasons?! Is that the reason we never see protesters outside slaughter houses? Even the recently reported accounts of atrocious behaviour failed to invoke a murmur! Why aren't deep sea fisherman's boats blockaded in their ports? Again I suppose commercial reasons dictate that this particularly unpleasant way of killing fish is ok, but fishing for them in the river is cruel!! Presumably sow crates are also ok, I see no protesters! Hens in cages, the list is endless, and that's just the UK. I too protested years ago at Plymouth over the export of veal calves which was a wicked cruel trade; not sure that anyone would be that bothered these days if the export of live animals is anything go by. I think the hunting issue is far more to do with class hatred than the love of foxes!

nigglynellie, perhaps because you come from a farming family you assume you have a more indepth knowledge of the animal kingdom. I cannot compare a fox killing a chicken to man killing an animal for sport, the fox does what a fox does, a hunter chooses to kill for fun . Animals are cruel , does this excuse the cruelty of man?

As for slaughter houses, I have fought against the brutality carried out in these places and have witnessed the slaughter carried out , and those are the places to hear animals screaming and smelling the fear. I was also in the campaign to stop farmers packing cattle trucks with calves to ship them abroad , hours and hours without water and so packed together forced to stand. I even succeeded in getting a farmer prosecuted for cruelty to his stock . I don't 'do' cute, furry ickle creatures , I abhor killing animals for fun and cruelty to animals which is carried out by many in the farming community angers me , there is never a good reason to choose to inflict suffering on an animal ,

You're right absent, if people take pleasure in suffering, that is nauseating.

It is the pleasure in suffering that gives me the creeps. Me too, Mishap. That was why I mentioned boxing; it's not the consenting pugilists but the audience's pleasure in their hitting nine bells of hell out of each other that disgusts and horrifies me.

Not sure which comment you mean, nigglenellie - the first part of my post was quoting anniebach's post above (it didn't come out in italics)

The second part of the post is what I thought the fox would be doing as it trotted across the field and then went on its merry way (sussing out which lambs looked ready for the kill imo).

Of course, it could be big cats at fault.

My next post was correcting my previous post because I typed it, changed a bit then posted it before checking.

No superior education at all (could be inferior for all we know!)

If that comment is aimed at me rose, then I've no idea what you mean, but I guess, being a country clod, I don't have the benefit of your superior education.

Apologies:
superfluous 'in a' in the last line
and the first part should be in italics as it was a quote.

I thought my first post didn't go through, so I virtually repeated myself. Apologies.
Puppy farming is absolutely disgusting, people involved should be locked up for a very long time. It's extremely cruel, and no way compares with Fox hunting. Having come from a farming family I probably have a different view of the furry Fox! The sounds of distress coming from a raided hen house isn't
a happy one, still less the cries of lambs and their distraught mothers. Presumably the fishing ban would include deep sea fishing? The fish caught here are left to gasp to death - extremely cruel I would say, but then a visit to a slaughter house should put most people off eating meat for ever! I suppose these poor creatures are out of sight and inevitably out of mind, so of no importance on the cruelty front!!