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The three young girls who have purportedly fled to Syria

(191 Posts)
TerriBull Mon 23-Feb-15 10:10:02

Apropos of a discussion on the Matthew Wright show this morning on the subject of the three young girls from London who may have gone to join the Jihadis in Syria, it was suggested that the grooming they received on social medias is akin to child abuse. Whether in fact that is the case, I like, one of the male panelists, find it very hard to understand how three young girls who follow this route would not be revolted by the brutality via the films ISIS have posted on line and which have formed part of their "grooming". Whilst I accept we are all a product of our time and social media was not around when we were growing up, it seems incomprehensible and alarming to me that at the tender age of 15 and 16 these girls have been influenced by such brutality, however disenchanted they are with western society.

TerriBull Mon 23-Feb-15 19:36:53

grannyactivist - "I see some of the idiotic choices I made and I cringe" I remember friend and I aged 18 whilst in Italy thought it would be a good idea to hitch to the next town and got into a car with 4 young men, thankfully they did just that and dropped us in the next town without anything untoward happening, but friend and I look back now and see we were stupid! stupid! stupid!

Mishap Mon 23-Feb-15 19:43:40

Oh me too Terribull - whilst on a holiday with a friend in Italy, we killed time waiting for a train by going off with some young lads in their car - they had offered to show us their home village, and they did just that - we met grandma and all the bambinos and enjoyed a massive plate of spaghetti; then they drove us back to the station.

A wonderful and memorable experience - but boy were we taking a risk, and if any of my girls has done this I would have had apoplexy!

However these girls who have taken themselves off to join IS are not signing up to a joyful experience that carries a bit of risk, but getting tied up with people who they know axe cruelly - it is so hard to understand how they cannot know that as intelligent young women.

Mishap Mon 23-Feb-15 19:44:10

"act" not "axe"

rosequartz Mon 23-Feb-15 19:50:36

The girls were possibly far more computer savvy than their parents who were more than likely unaware of what their daughters were accessing on their computers. They probably thought they were diligently doing their homework.

Teenage girls can be very good at concealing from their parents just what they get up to.

I wonder at the mindset of the girl who recruited them.

MargaretX Mon 23-Feb-15 20:09:02

I think you can't blame passport control. The girls looked as if they could have been Turkish. I expect that many unaccompanied teenagers fly over to see family in their Turkish homeland.

I was also appalled at the reaction of the family talking about their 'babies' and sitting around with teddy bears. The film of the girls showed quite different young ladies who unfortunately have been misguided and this makes it all such a tragedy.

Faye Mon 23-Feb-15 22:06:07

When you enter a foreign country aren't you asked the reason for your trip? Seems odd that people are being allowed to go off and fight with the enemy and in this day and age governments haven't got off their backsides and stopped them. I can't understand why isn't there passport control.

Apparently many jihadists returning to their home countries are traumatised and others have become more hard lined. They should all be jailed if they dare to return. Why is there nothing done to deter these fanatics?

It's all very well saying we all made mistakes when we were young, but did anyone want to join a terrorist group that chop off people's heads, rape and kill, send young children with bombs strapped to them to explode amongst other innocent people, (the latest bomber was a seven year old girl) or put people in cages and burn them alive. Seriously there has to be something seriously wrong with these people.

gillybob Mon 23-Feb-15 22:17:22

And something very seriously wrong with any young girl who wants to go out and join them Faye .

absent Mon 23-Feb-15 22:20:14

What grounds would passport control in the UK have for preventing these girls from boarding their flight to Turkey? Clearly, their names were not on a watch list and they appeared to have had valid passports and tickets. (The one who is said to have used her slightly older sister's passport may have had a close family resemblance but, if not, we all know how sub-human we look in passport photographs.) Security at an airport – where there are thousands of passengers daily – is important but it cannot override the law. As there were no grounds for suspicion, even under the wide-ranging Prevention of Terrorism Act, stopping them from travelling to a popular holiday destination would have been illegal.

The girls would have to be very stupid if they completed an immigration form in Turkey, or anywhere else, giving "jihad" as a reason for travelling. Holiday would be the most likely and acceptable reason. You never used to have to give an address where you would be staying, especially as many tourists travel around, but things may have changed. If they have, no doubt their contacts would have supplied a suitable address.

Faye Mon 23-Feb-15 22:22:08

Definitely gillybob, there should be no excuses for either.

soontobe Mon 23-Feb-15 22:25:17

If the girls have been groomed, I am finding it hard to condemn them for that.

grannyactivist. So sad what happened to your family.

petra Tue 24-Feb-15 08:39:20

I see what some of you are saying about getting into cars with men that you have never met.
If that car had had a poster across the windscreen saying "terrorist, rapist, on board, fancy a ride girls" would you still have got in?

gillybob Tue 24-Feb-15 08:53:55

Exactly petra there is a huge difference between being silly and careless to walking fully aware into the lair of pure evil. These girls know exactly what ISIS are capable of. For goodness sake they have seen it with their own eyes and yet they STILL wanted to go.

Mishap Tue 24-Feb-15 09:13:50

Well I guess that somehow, against all their intelligence, they think that god wants them to do it and they will go to paradise. Not sure I have any desire to go there if some of these villains will be there.

Faith is a peculiar and dangerous thing. Defies logic.

annodomini Tue 24-Feb-15 09:44:59

It sounds as if the young woman from Glasgow is used by IS as a recruiting agent for teenage girls. I wonder what line she spins them. She is probably still spreading her lies over the Internet. She must have a chat room or something of the sort which should not be too hard to find, unless there are people in IS with exceptional expertise. And evidently this is a strong possibility.

KatyK Tue 24-Feb-15 09:54:14

I'm not sure some of these mothers are as downtrodden and meek as they would have us believe.

Anya Tue 24-Feb-15 10:18:26

A British Airways flight was stopped as it taxied at Heathrow recently, preventing another 15-year old girl from joining ISIL. The airline tipped off the counterterrorism unit.

Turkish Airlines have now flown at least four unaccompanied school girls without alerting the authorities.

GillT57 Tue 24-Feb-15 10:51:00

The whole business is very tricky for the border authorities and airlines. While lots of people, including a woman in islamic dress on BBC this morning, sorry dont know who she was) are blaming everyone for allowing this to happen, I really dont see what could have been done to prevent it. The girls appear to be articulate, intelligent and capable and do we really think they would tell the truth about their plans if they had been stopped? Stopped on what grounds? Looking Islamic and maybe lying about their holiday plans? They were 3 girls in western dress at half term heading off on holiday, why would that look suspicious? So do border authorities stop and question everyone going to Turkey? Or just those who might be off to join Jihad? And how do these people look different? To blame anyone but the girls themselves ( for being naive and deceitful) and more importantly the vile recruiters is pointless.

Anya Tue 24-Feb-15 10:58:35

Indeed Gill they were certainly very deceitful.

JessM Tue 24-Feb-15 11:36:32

What passport control are you referring to? As I have commented above there would appear to be none at all on exit in UK - or am I getting it wrong? Just ground/security staff checking that passport matches ticket and boarding card. Hence any attempt by "authorities" to flag up minors at risk is dependent on the companies involved.

Still utterly astounded by the amount of victim blaming taking place on this thread. They are children and are at serious risk of harm.
Would you be equally critical I wonder if they were three white girls of the same age who were involved in drug trafficking in Thailand or somewhere and under threat of imprisonment and death penalty?

Riverwalk Tue 24-Feb-15 11:50:14

I agree Jess, was about to liken the three girls to teenage drug mules or the abused girls in Rochdale.

TerriBull Tue 24-Feb-15 12:03:03

I think the objections are less about the foolishness of youth, understandable, and more about the fact that the girls don't appear to have been put off by the callousness and brutality of this regime. I have read about European women going to Syria and positively reveling in that aspect, one woman from London reported as saying she would love to do a bit of beheading herself. I find the acceptance of these prospective Jihadi brides of ISIS savagery against their fellow human beings incomprehensible.

TerriBull Tue 24-Feb-15 12:04:18

meant to say by these prospective Jihadi brides

JessM Tue 24-Feb-15 12:23:30

How to you know Terribull that the girls don't think they are going to help in refugee camps?
Have to admit tthat I have not been reading all the coverage as presumably most of it speculative (and what the press don't know they will often make up), but it does seem a big leap from "ran away to Turkey" to potential terrorist or war criminal?
Also what is wrong with older sister saying "she's our baby" etc - I would imagine if one of you had a 15 year old granddaughter who disappeared you might, in your distress, think of her as a child?

Anya Tue 24-Feb-15 12:36:01

That's the aspect I find hard to understand Terri. These girls are obviously computer literate, accademically able and using social media.

How can they not know what it is they are heading into?

grannyactivist Tue 24-Feb-15 12:44:57

In time to come we will hopefully know more about these three children and others who have left their homes in similar manner. Anyone who is familiar with the work of Zimbardo and Milgram will understand that adult individuals are capable, under some circumstances, of taking part in horrendous activities that they would never have imagined themselves capable of; children are even more susceptible. We don't know what they were told or believed, we don't know why they went, we don't know what psychological or group pressures they were under. We do know that they are away from home and possibly entering into a war zone - and they are someones children and grandchildren. sad