The three young girls who have purportedly fled to Syria

Yes. They've named him. But does that help at all?

I can't feel any sympathy for these girls. They must have known the dreadful things these people do. I hope they never get to come back to the UK. I don't care if they were "groomed" or not. That can't excuse it.

Apparently 'Jihadist John' has been named too.
I fully believe there is an element of choice in what we believe and fortunately the vast majority of people make the correct choice.
The consequences for those who make the 'wrong' choice can be devastating to others as well as themselves.

The Crusades, or the British Empire or the Slave Trade or the Nazi Death Camps or or or ---- may seem past history best forgotten to some , but for others they are still alive and powerful. Police in Edmonton announced today that they are close to identifying the female recruiter of the 3 young women who left Western Canada recently and who are now in Syria. Yes we can all be influenced, young and naive, old and cynical or anywhere in between, but is there an element of choice in what we beleive?

Crikey. If one of my kids gave me a stuffed teddy bear I would soon tell them what to do with it.

Some one once said never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups. Take your pick. ISIS Twitter Facebook and young girls

I was trying to imply that people of all ages are selective in what they believe.

Re Hitler - I guess that the vast majority of young men who fought for Hitler thought they were doing the right thing - fighting for the fatherland etc. They did not think he was a bad man and that they wanted to do bad things on his behalf did they? (parking the benefit of hindsight for just a moment)

Propaganda is a powerful thing. I just think it is unreasonable to condemn children and young adults for falling prey to it when many adults get an idea into their heads and despite lots of contrary evidence are not swayed (e.g. the nurse above).

There is a difference between someone saying they never thought someone was bad, they did not see his/her wrong doings, they only ever saw the goodside etc to someone who sees something with their own eyes and still cannot (or refuses to) believe they are bad.

I don't think there is any doubt that Jimmy Saville had two personas, the magnanimous one, clearly he was some sort of a psychopath who possibly thought any good works counter balanced his vileness. We now know loads of people in authority knew what he did and turned a blind eye, which will pose the question for ever more, why they colluded in that deceit and allow him to get away with his wrong doings for his entire life.

I don't see anything selective in believing ISIS are as wicked as any of the worst totalitarian, fascist regimes. Would you say our knowledge of Hitler is selectively biased against him and those who willingly implemented many of the awful atrocities committed by the Nazis JessM?

I only saw Saville running past me once or twice in the Great North Run JessM but I still thought he was a creep so the retired nurse could probably only base her judgement on what she had seen/heard/experienced. There were a lot of people who were fooled by him, for a very long time.

Can't quite see what this has got to do with the three young women who have gone to Syria though. Never mind. Digression is a normal part of conversation.

There was an extraordinary interview on R4Today this morning with a woman (retired nurse?) who had worked in Stoke Mandeville. She seemed to be arguing that because she had only ever seen Saville spreading cheer and raising money she had no reason to believe that he had done anything wrong.
Selective indeed.

Gillybob "they could be forgiven if there was no internet" I agree. Drawing analogies between these girls and those believing they were doing the right thing in volunteering for both world wars on either side or the Spanish Civil War isn't really a fair comparison. As for the medieval times, dog eat dog world, Crusaders were little better than the marauding terrorists of their day - completely accept that, but really too far back to be relevant accept to say that I thought we had left some of the barbarity of those times behind, but seemingly not.

The girls from London followed the privately educated medical student from Glasgow on Twitter. They would have been well aware of her profile, her parents are also distraught, particularly over a photograph of her wearing a white coat, standing next to a small child with a severed head in her hand. How anyone in their right mind could be encouraged by such an image I don't know let alone girls aged 15 and 16. Those going know what is happening out there. The images that we are fed are orchestrated by the terrorists intended to frighten and disgust, I find it hard to understand why therefore they have the opposite affect on those that seek to go to Syria. A foreign country where ISIS, many of whom are not Syrians, are an occupying militia.

I personally am always happy to see a different point of view Anya I am always willing to be talked around, proved wrong even. I am (I think) open minded. Most people form an opinion from the evidence around them, what they can see, hear and/or their own life experiences and yes we do tend to stick with them until we learn otherwise.

Anyway getting back on topic, I have yet to see or hear anything that makes me believe that these girls were tricked,hoodwinked,groomed, call it what you will, into traveling to Syria but as I said in a previous post I will be more than happy to be proved wrong.

Yes Boko Haram are recruiting child soldiers. JessM They are evil. These young women were brought up in the safety of Britain. Syria is not their home country, it is not their war. They were not rounded up on some street corner or whilst at school, whatever. They traveled there of their own free will. Again no comparison.

Agree Jess and there is evidence to suggest that once people form an opinion it is very difficult to change that point of view.

Mystified. Boko Haram doing a good job of recruiting child soldiers I suspect along with many other organisations. People are selective Gillybob in the information they believe - once an opinion formed they will tend to believe things that confirm their beliefs and discount contradictory information. There are countless examples of adults doing this. In this case young people know that what they see in terms of images is not always "true" and so will dismiss them as anti-muslim propaganda.

gillybob The internet and other more or less instant forms of the media have indeed made the world a different place, but I would disagree strongly with your assertion that "most of the world has thankfully become more civilised".

They were surely to be forgiven for their ignorance thoughJessM given that there was no internet, no same day reporting, no graphic videos then. I stand by my previous post. You cannot compare a young man volunteering in ww1 and/or ww2 to the present day. Since then most of the world has thankfully become more civilized.

Well whatever war young people volunteer for, they believe they are doing the right thing. As Absent pointed out, above, some of those who went to Spain went to fight for the fascists and some for the anti-fascists. Both lots thought they were doing the right thing. Huge numbers of Japanese and German youths thought they were doing the right thing when they volunteered in WW2. Mediaeval kings and knights were convinced they were doing the right thing when they left their lands, bankrupted their countries and went off to Palestine to try to drive out the arabs.
It's a simple equation
naive young person + propaganda -> volunteer (aka gun fodder) who is convinced they are doing the right thing.

I agree TerriBull, and I still struggle with the idea of these girls being naive, innocent etc, etc. and unaware of what they were heading into.

I agree with your post Gillybob. ISIS atrocities have been well publicised along with the substantiated testaments of their cruelty. What sort of person would want to be part of that. They break the rules of their own religion, for example Muslims are not supposed to burn dead bodies let alone a live person. Some of the foreign women recruited are given the task of spying and administering harsh punishments to the indigenous women in the city of Raqqua where many are based. Why in God's name would anyone think that would be something they wish to aspire to. The foreign Jihadis that seek to join ISIS are not carrying out magnanimous or humanitarian acts they are not aid workers, they are usurpers in a foreign land happy to collude with an extreme sect who are inflicting hell on the citizens of that country. I don't think comparisons can be drawn between young men who signed up to fight in the two World Wars or those who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War.

I agree Riverwalk, but when it comes to carrying out inconceivable crimes........
Am I too naive in wondering why Facebook and other websites aren't tightly monitored, or I suppose those hellbent on corrupting young and not-so-young minds always find a way.......

Grown adults, never mind teenagers, are seduced over the internet.

Normally-sane people send money to scammers; middle-aged women fall in love with 20-year old Tunisian boys; kind-hearted mugs send money to a couple who claim to live at Heathrow ... there's no end to naivety!

Chillingly scary that any child is capable of such awful acts, makes me wonder just how young minds can become so corrupted and evil.

A very similar situation has happened in Canada recently. 3 young women were recruited for IS by a female on line in Western Canada. They left for Turkey and are now in Syria. The sister of a 23 year old describes her as shy, younger than her age, naive. Perhaps they think that the violence meeted out by IS is justifiable/necessary and will lead to something good?

I have to say I admire your ability to "forgive " (not sure if forgive is the right word so apologies in advance) the murderer of you son in law grannyactivist I am not so sure I could be so generous.

Looking at the two children leading poor little Jamie Bulger to his eventual murder fills me with horror and they were clearly children who knew exactly what they were doing.

What if these three "innocent" young women were three bearded young Muslim men?
I think I already answered that when I said that the teenaged muslim boy who killed my son in law was still in my eyes a child.