The three young girls who have purportedly fled to Syria

*margaretx Our next door neighbours are Muslims of Pakistani origin. I don't recognise your description at all.

This was in the news this morning. If it was too hard for immigration to twig that three young women were about to travel to Turkey, surely the airlines could have informed them before they boarded the plane. Aren't visas used anymore?

Apparently many jihardists are arriving back traumatised from their experience with IS. Unfortunately some are more hard lined.

In one sense they certainly knew what they were doing - to get where they have requires a detailed plan and a lot of research.

But at heart they have no idea what they are doing - silly girls - what on earth will happen to them?

I wish I'd never mentioned the teddy bear in my original post. JessM is right, many families continue to buy each other soft toys throughout life. When my much loved mil died recently, all four of her granddaughters chose one of nan's soft toys as a life long memory of nan. The granddaughters age 28 - 34, they are successful in work and relationships but one of the soft toys was an essential memory.

The point I was trying, clumsily to make, is that as in most families, the parents don't see confident outgoing and deceitful 15/16 year olds, they see their precious children. The gap between parents and teenagers is a difficult one to negotiate, in any culture.

GrannyTwice There were recruits from the UK on both sides in the Spanish Civil War and there were also atrocities perpetrated by both sides.

I'm starting to think these girls aren't as naive as first thought. The 16 year old, according to the Times today, has ^ 11,000 followers on Twitter and .......had followed 77 accounts many belonging to jihadi fighters, including graphic photos of fighters with dead children.
Her Twitter biography in early January demonstrates, apparently, her intentions. Most of her activity cannot be seen because she has high security settings^, hardly the behaviour of an unsuspecting child, IMO.

Oh FFS Margaretx when I first met my DH his mother and sisters were always buying each other soft toys. His mum bought me one once. But that fact does not tell you anything else about the kind of family they are.
Soft toys hardly grounds for making sweeping and critical statements about the quality of parenting provided by Muslim families. And neither is the impression you formed from peering into the windows of one family 30 years ago. Does it not occur to you that making remarks like that might offend people? Or are Muslim grans not allowed on here?

Retired guy- yes in a word. Franco was trying to overthrow a democratically elected govt. Those who went to help fight against him in the International Brigade were not intending to take over the world which is what ISIS want to do but wanted to defend democracy.

infantile mother

that's very harsh Margaret - you have no idea what sort of mother she is. How can you judge from a TV interview?

It wouldn't surprise me, knowing how the press can work, if it was they who suggested to the family to cuddle the teddy and pyjamas - you see it in many newspaper interviews, sad forlorn faces holding up sentimental items.

Were you so harsh on Kate McCann with her hugging the Cuddle Cat in so many interviews?

That Teddy bear was what gave me a clue as to what kind of parents these girls have. My daughters would not have given me-an adult- a teddy bear for Mothers day. It shows the daughter has had no real guidance from such an infantile mother.
I lived opposite, window on window with a muslim family when my children were small. It was like looking back a century to see how they lived, so close, the women huddled together. The children totally unstimulated in the first years of their lives. Just sitting in their cots.
Of course since then they have moved on in 30 years, but the view into their lives remained with me and I saw it all over again in that interview.
it is no wonder the girls were lead astray, I hope they can escape somehow or that the worst can be prevented

Terribull I think the key word in your post is "allegedly".

JessM I dont think I was victim blaming, more a case of asking just what anyone could have done to stop them? They are evidently articulate and educated and capable of organising the trip without anyone being aware of it. I have a daughter and I have sympathy for their families who must be in despair, the point I was trying to make was that there was no reason for border agency here in Uk to stop them from boarding their flight; they had tickets and passports, it was half term, many people fly off on holiday, and remember one of them was travelling on her 17 year old sister's passport so they were not a group of vulnerable children. I certainly am not blaming them, I just dont see what could have been done to stop the trip, not unless we all want every single traveller with an Islamic name/Islamic appearance to be questioned? Really? I sincerely hope that they get back home unharmed, and I would hope that efforts are being made to cut off the social media streams that are doing the recruitment of these innocent girls.

Last year, when my 17 yr old twin grand daughters returned from spending Christmas in Kenya with their mother, they were stopped by Passport Control at Heathrow Airport. We got a phone call and were questioned quite closely before they were allowed through where we were waiting for them. They have been 'accompanied' children until recently as required by the airlines. (BA, Virgin and Kenya Airways).
Young girls are so subject to peer pressure via social media - it is much worse now with broadband than when I looked after my other grand-daughters when it was dial-up modems and no smart phones. We don't allow phones or laptops in bedrooms, only downstairs even though they are 17.

Jess M - there has been very comprehensive coverage across our newspaper spectrum of why European Muslims have gone to Syria. Possibly the press do make things up at times, but I think they would be hard pushed to fabricate photos such as the man being thrown off the top of car park to his death. In any case the Jihadis themselves seem to be the masters of their own publicity machine, they don't need our press, gruesome films of beheadings and the burning of the Jordanian pilot have been specifically put out there to cause revulsion in the West. There are also testaments via social media such as Twitter from some that have gone there, describing their joy in witnessing beheadings, and an Australian Jihadi allowed his young son to be photographed with a severed head. All in all I think it's quite evident that most heading out to Syria have not gone to work in refugee camps. Possibly they did once when they were part of a foreign force committed to defeating Assad's army. ISIS or ISIL or whatever they call themselves seemed to materialise out of nowhere and have put much effort into recruiting people from the west. Whilst their original intentions may have been understandable they have now morphed into an unbelievably repressive, violent and revolting regime that it's impossible to understand why any normal human being would want to be part of that. These girls had allegedly been following umpteen of their propaganda sites and would have been well aware of what was going on in their proposed destination.

I don't criticise the family's reaction, neither do I blame them, I think many teenagers get up to all sorts behind their parents backs, particularly in the technological age we are living in. I understand why the dad was holding the teddy bear it was because his daughter gave it to her mum on Mother's Day and he was demonstrating that as far as he was concerned the family had no knowledge of their plans to go to Syria, just ordinary kids. I have no reason to disbelieve them and thought they all looked thoroughly shattered.

Someone earlier mentioned the Spanish Civil War.
If there any difference in motivation between those from the UK who went to Spain to fight for a cause they believed in and these young people who go off to join the ISIS?

In time to come we will hopefully know more about these three children and others who have left their homes in similar manner. Anyone who is familiar with the work of Zimbardo and Milgram will understand that adult individuals are capable, under some circumstances, of taking part in horrendous activities that they would never have imagined themselves capable of; children are even more susceptible. We don't know what they were told or believed, we don't know why they went, we don't know what psychological or group pressures they were under. We do know that they are away from home and possibly entering into a war zone - and they are someones children and grandchildren.

That's the aspect I find hard to understand Terri. These girls are obviously computer literate, accademically able and using social media.

How can they not know what it is they are heading into?

How to you know Terribull that the girls don't think they are going to help in refugee camps?
Have to admit tthat I have not been reading all the coverage as presumably most of it speculative (and what the press don't know they will often make up), but it does seem a big leap from "ran away to Turkey" to potential terrorist or war criminal?
Also what is wrong with older sister saying "she's our baby" etc - I would imagine if one of you had a 15 year old granddaughter who disappeared you might, in your distress, think of her as a child?

meant to say by these prospective Jihadi brides

I think the objections are less about the foolishness of youth, understandable, and more about the fact that the girls don't appear to have been put off by the callousness and brutality of this regime. I have read about European women going to Syria and positively reveling in that aspect, one woman from London reported as saying she would love to do a bit of beheading herself. I find the acceptance of these prospective Jihadi brides of ISIS savagery against their fellow human beings incomprehensible.

I agree Jess, was about to liken the three girls to teenage drug mules or the abused girls in Rochdale.

What passport control are you referring to? As I have commented above there would appear to be none at all on exit in UK - or am I getting it wrong? Just ground/security staff checking that passport matches ticket and boarding card. Hence any attempt by "authorities" to flag up minors at risk is dependent on the companies involved.

Still utterly astounded by the amount of victim blaming taking place on this thread. They are children and are at serious risk of harm.
Would you be equally critical I wonder if they were three white girls of the same age who were involved in drug trafficking in Thailand or somewhere and under threat of imprisonment and death penalty?

Indeed Gill they were certainly very deceitful.

The whole business is very tricky for the border authorities and airlines. While lots of people, including a woman in islamic dress on BBC this morning, sorry dont know who she was) are blaming everyone for allowing this to happen, I really dont see what could have been done to prevent it. The girls appear to be articulate, intelligent and capable and do we really think they would tell the truth about their plans if they had been stopped? Stopped on what grounds? Looking Islamic and maybe lying about their holiday plans? They were 3 girls in western dress at half term heading off on holiday, why would that look suspicious? So do border authorities stop and question everyone going to Turkey? Or just those who might be off to join Jihad? And how do these people look different? To blame anyone but the girls themselves ( for being naive and deceitful) and more importantly the vile recruiters is pointless.

A British Airways flight was stopped as it taxied at Heathrow recently, preventing another 15-year old girl from joining ISIL. The airline tipped off the counterterrorism unit.

Turkish Airlines have now flown at least four unaccompanied school girls without alerting the authorities.