This is so terribly sad.

We're all grown ups, absentgrandma and I think your post is just as offensive as others.

It's not for you to decide who should or should not be banned.

Message deleted by Gransnet for breaking our forum guidelines. Replies may also be deleted.

I think that doctors and health professionals are going to have to decide about all of this.

As someone said either on this thread, or another, the health system for each country is different.
In germany you go to lots of private doctors? And hear the answer you want to?

Then there are different airline procedures and protocols around the world.

So whether a depressed pilot is going to be allowed to fly will probably be different for each airline.
Some may change their procedures after this. Some may not.

People may want to consider looking up an airlines policy on this matter before they book with a particular airline?

An interesting history here.

Thanks POGS, I totally agree, it's incalculable awful for all of the relatives

granjura it's this behaviour that I find so upsetting, we can agree to disagree but the personal insults are unacceptable. Perhaps I am over sensitive but that's me!

As for facts concerning the cock - pit and what happened why is it the media are being blamed by a few ?

Did none of you watch the official French spokesman and listen to the question and answer session afterwards?

It was made perfectly clear the co - pilot had to over ride systems to lock the cock - pit door from anyone gaining entry from outside and he had to reset the dials to 'down thenplane'. There his no conspiracy theory or misleading of the facts .

Anniebach Clarification please I am not sure if I followed your point properly.

You posted "When two little boys killed a small child, they were branded evil in the press, when adults tried to attack a police vehicle carrying the two children these adults were emotional and distressed nothing evil in trying to get their hands on two children?"

Did you mean to say in your post that you felt the adults were (just) emotional and distressed and that you felt that there was nothing wrong with them trying to get their hands on the two children.

Or.. That you did not feel the lynch mob had any "evil intent" towards getting their hands on those boys?

I find there is nothing more appalling than the sight of a "Lynch mob" attacking a police vehicle in these very sad circumstances. IMO those who do this make me think they might be just as violent and aggressive as those they are complaining about.

Mob rule solves nothing at all in such situations.

Agreed Anno. I truly believe that we can disagree here in the strongest of terms, but 'f'ing and blinding, and personal attacks like 'you are talking out of your arse' are totally unacceptable, on any thread- and deserve GN warning and ban if repeated. This is a terrible tragedy and personal attacks are totally out of order and the reason people leave.

What can't some people discuss, debate, disagree, even totally, without resorting to insults, especially personal attacks?

Shoot the messenger if you want but I have a slightly different take on the last few posts.

I too have experience of suicide, not the threat of but carrying through the act. I stand by my post Sat 28th 19,10.

I won't repeat the points I raised but I will add this to the mix.

I honestly believe if any of us in our family knew the tragedy that unfolded was a likelyhood e.g heard/personally experienced the threat of suicide or even the will we would have been in a better position to date. There was not a clue, no telling us they wanted to drive a car at a brick wall, hang themself, take an overdose etc., nothing. The guilt is awful and that is why I said the family had my empathy. They will be feeling absolutely desperate and I don't think there has been any nasty personal remark against them?

You might be thinking why does she think she will get it in the neck?

Because if for one moment we had heard any expression of 'wanting to commit suicide' , most certainly knew of an attempt we would have been on full alert. But I tell you this straight if there was any knowledge of manic depression, suicidal thoughts I would never, ever have thought it to be remotely practical he could carry on in a job that had the potential to take so many people with him such as being a pilot. There has to come a time when common sense and reasoned thinking tells you this is plain irresponsible if you were party to that information. If it turns out to be the case the airline knew he was a manic depressive with suicidal tentencies and allowed him to fly then they need the book thrown at them quite frankly but I am not going to jump on the back of that bandwagon , the culture of blame until due process has been carried out and a conclusive answer given.

For my mind there can never be a 100% guarantee these sort of disasters never happen, no matter what procedures are in place. The secret mind of an individual is a closed book and we mostly find out after the dreaded event, if we knew before there would be no suicide would there!

Where I differ is I know for a fact that had it been a loved one of mine I could never get over the severity of his actions and the despair of the aftermath. I am well aware thank you depression is an illness but for goodness sake to calculate how to take your life alongside men, women, children, babies does make these cases more horrendous than can be humanly justified, illness or not but at the same time madness crept in and you will never, ever account for that.

It happened and there was a cause it's too late for the innocent 150 men, women, children and babies onboard that plane and it is with them where my utter sympathy lies and whilst that is not PC to some on here I am at least speaking truthfully like it or not.

Sometimes it really is better to wait for all the facts to be established. All we have so far is media speculation and the report relating to the black box recorder.

The media can never be trusted, and whilst some of what they are wittering about may be correct much of it will be wild speculation, and sensational. We shouldn't play their games as they really are without integrity and proper standards.

In the words of the song: 'Let it go'.

If anyone thought I was being unsympathetic, i was not, I believe that gracesgran totally misread my post. I was agreeing with her but pointing out that because people do not wish to share their own experiences on an open forum that does not mean they lack empathy or sympathy.
Depression is such a generic term and to describe whatever was going on with this young man as depression does a great disservice to all those struggling with it in any form, people who would never harm anyone else.

i don't think Merlot's opinion showed lack of thought. It might not be what some wanted to hear, but I'm sure she had thought out what she wanted to say.

And frankly the comparison of the press hounding Jeffreys is ridiculous I'm afraid.

If you care to scroll back to the link to the DM article, and I don't care what anyone thinks of the DM - this has been reported elsewhere, you will see that the flight recorder has evidence of the co-pilot suggesting to the pilot that he leave the flight deck. The pilot is then heard desperately trying to get back in.

FACT

I'm getting really confused by this thread. I've decided that his grievance is with his employers in that he obviously couldn't cut it as a pilot and he probably felt they should have supported him more. He had flown his glider over those mountains; he could have just jumped out of his glider one day if he just wanted to take his own life. He even knew the area where he wanted to crash the plane and had probably been planning this for a while. I stress again that I have every sympathy with anyone suffering from depression/mental illness either themselves or people they know. I feel sadness beyond belief for the people that have been affected by this tragedy. But, in all honesty, I hope this young man rots in hell for what he's done .

But that's your opinion, Penstemmon. There may be others who agree with me. They've just got more sense than to come on here and say so.

Because you find comparisons ridiculous Merlotgran doesn't make them so, just your opinion as they are mine

I do not know if this man intended to kill , you it seems do , my knowledge of flight decks is nil

Nobody opposes others having opinions merlot it is the lack of thought that appears to go into them that we object to.

The press always try to winkle out "evidence" that might support the most dramatic scenario, so that they sell more.

It does seem clear that this young man had a mental health problem - that is all we know. We are presuming that this underlay his bizarre act, as seems likely.

I was named as being the one to cause upset. (To when)

(with smoke)

These comparisons are ridiculous.

I know what murder means

.merlotgran, murder means intent to take life . Mr .jeffreys was a man who was found guilty of murder by the press who spent most of the time trying to get negative comments from people who had met Mr Jeffries then printing these stories as fact . Why can the press not wait for official statements and stop these headlines not based on fact

When two little boys killed a small child, they were branded evil in the press, when adults tried to attack a police vehicle carrying the two children these adults were emotional and distressed nothing evil in trying to get their hands on two children

No, I wasn't Jingle. What brought that on?

I think they mean me, jingl. As some of us said on this thread late last night, we really should move on from posters' experiences with depression. They have, and no doubt will continue, to voice their opinions but it won't stop me from adding my bit as well.

Open mind and all that.