Leadership debate

Yes, we could have saved our bums from not having to sit there for two hours!

so thank you to POGS for summing it up for me!!

I guess your right Ana but it must be annoying for the people of Northern Ireland.

Difficult one.

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/leaders-debate-goes-ahead-without-dup-but-heres-what-peter-robinson-would-have-said-to-the-nation-31114995.html

The fourth largest party in the House of Commons and they weren't invited

I watched half of it and quite honestly that was enough. I find the whole concept artificial, superficial and a bit of a pantomime.

But if they'd invited the leader of the DUP to take part, Sinn Féin, the SDLP and Alliance would all have insisted on being involved as well.

I suppose they had to draw a line somewhere.

Were they asked at all, or were they asked and declined the kind invitation?

I think it was a poor show NI was not represented to be honest, especially unfair as they can point to the fact they have more MP's than the Greens, Plaid Cymru and UKIP.

But there was no-one there to represent NI.
They must feel like the forgotten people.

Ed Miliband's phrase 'You People at Home' drives some members of my family mad.
As if politicians are all out there working whereas the rest of us just sit at home.

A good summary POGS

Kitty and roses.

It would be rude of me not to say thank you

I agree with roses. Excellent post POGS!

On the subject of anyone using their family to illustrate a point - surely , if it's something dear to your heart it would be something that you would mention. I know I do it and I know lots of people on here do it too!

POGS, that was an excellent post.

B----r 2 threads on the same topic.

I watched it last night but I also recorded it to be able to make a better appraisal , yes I know that's sad but you miss the odd nuances and I like to be confident about making a personal opinion.

Having watched it again I thought Natalie Bennett did very well. I think her policies are, to my mind only, quite mad but I liked the way she stated what her policies were in a clear manner. She was certainly more composed than when being interviewed one to one.

Nigel Forage did exactly what I thought he would do, say what he thinks lump it, or leave it. Totally Marmite character but will take votes from both Labour and Conservatives. I thought he performed quite well.

Nick Clegg was OK I just think he looks desperate at times but he is trying to appear to be the 'Mr Middle of the Road' and I don't think that's what his party wants to be honest. I find him a bit hypocritical and back stabbing and that never sits well with me. He did better than I thought he would.

Leanne Wood is a genuinely nice person and as a nationalist quite rightly speaks up for Wales. I thought her positioning on Labours hypocrisy re the running of the NHS and NHS privatisation under Labour were made well. She had another killer point come across when she stated Labour voted 'against' a Plaid Cymru ammendment to ban zero hour contracts . BAM, ! I do worry she is a little too in awe of Nicola Sturgeon though.

David Cameron had a remit I think not to give anybody the opportunity to call him smug and he underplayed his hand too much. I thought he was more or less on the money and the second time round I noted more points were actually raised by him than I thought first time round. I thought he took comments that criticized him well and was all in all steady as she goes.

Nicola Sturgeon is always good in front of a camera and debates well. I like the fact she speaks honestly about wanting to break up the Union and makes no defence of her hatred of the Tories. I do think she defines to the voter a clear choice, spend more, get rid of Trident, break up the Union, vote down a Westminster government etc. My problem with the SNP is I don't find it a Democratic party if all it wants to do is anhialate the opposition by any means including foul play.

Ed Miliband was all Mr Macho and I can't help but find it false. He did OK and he 'turned' awkward comments against Labour well. I think he is thicker skinned than some think. He was quite dominate with regard to the level of his voice and eye contact and hand gestures, my problem is I couldn't help but think he had undergone performance training and I didn't think it was totally natural. He shook his head so much it was annoying. He tried to put over policies but they were shot down by the others and went nowhere.

Can I just say with regards to Cameron and his family. I agree it can be annoying but Ed Miliband also used the birth of his children during the debate last night and Gordon Brown often spoke of his loss of his child too. I don't think any of them 'use' their children for self promotion nor playing the sympathy card as some elude to. I just think that they are trying to say look I do have first hand knowledge of what the NHS means to the voter.

"Why cant we have a government made up of responsible academics who are non political?"

That was an idea I had absolutely sold myself on for years, up until More or Less covered Kahan's research on the World Service about a year ago:

Kahan

Motivated Numeracy and Enlightened Self-Government:

"In an environment in which positions on particular policy-relevant facts become widely understood as symbols of individuals’ membership in and loyalty to opposing cultural groups, it will promote people’s individual interests to attend to evidence about those facts in a manner that reliably conforms their beliefs to the ones that predominate in the groups they are members of. Indeed, the tendency to process information in this fashion will be strongest among individuals who display the reasoning capacities most strongly associated with science comprehension."

"The conditions that generate symbolic associations between positions on risk and like facts, on the one hand, and cultural identities, on the other, must be neutralized in order to assure that citizens make use of their capacity for science comprehension."

"These normal and normally reliable processes of knowledge transmission break down when risk or like facts are transformed (whether through strategic calculation or misadventure and accident) into divisive symbols of cultural identity. The solution to this problem is not—or certainly not necessarily!-to divest citizens of the power to contribute to the formation of public policy. It is to adopt measures that effectively shield decision-relevant science from the influences that generate this reason-disabling state"

Yes, well done Leanne. The debate went better than I anticipated. I was ready to switch off if they had started baying at each other like they do in the Commons. I feel I know more about the party leaders' views now, and would like to see more questions debated.

As a Welsh citizen I was so proud of Leanne tonight, she had a difficult task speaking for a small country which is of no or little interest to the rest of the UK, but when she turned on Farage for his sick comment on AIDS sufferers , brilliant and compassionate

Yes - the DC and his son. I really don't think he should keep using this. He really didn't have a typical experience did he? There was a memorable interview with him and Sam when she had to put him right on the appallingly low number of nappies supplied to Ivan and how they had to buy lots more. Also, he claimed DLA for Ivan which I don't argue with but he's now almost certainly going to make that taxable if he gets back in. I'm not for one minute suggesting that on the emotional side he didn't suffer like any other parent in that situation but as a political leader, I think you should be careful how you use those experiences on the political stage as it puts your opponents in a difficult position re challenging you

Cameron brings his deceased son into every debate on the NHS, he did it tonight, he did it in the SKY debate , he did it at the last Tory conference , I feel uncomfortable saying this but it's more than cringeworthy .

Smug Farage - showing his true colours and Leanne telling him he should be ashamed of himself. Of course he is far too smug to know what shame is!

Anno - I watched it all because I'm in bed ill and wouldn't have done otherwise and I'm really pleased I did. I'm watching the analysis now but it was good to see it all - and especially Leanne turning on NF on the HIV issue - couldn't have been scripted and showed real passion and courage IMO.

I didn't watch it, but as I have watched the BBC news and am now watching Newsnight, I have a pretty good idea of how it went. I could have predicted that Nicola Sturgeon would be impressive. She is a shrewd operator like Alex Salmond and is a fine public speaker.

I must admit I found that rather cringeworthy too.

I think all the women did brilliantly. Nothing fazed Nicola Sturgeon - she is one impressive woman. I also thought Natalie Bennett was very good - and the only person to mention the environment, which I think is really quite shameful. Bravo to Leanne Wood for saying Nigel Farage should be ashamed of himself.

I very much dislike the way David Cameron brings the tragedy of his son into debates about the NHS - as if his complimentary words negate the fact that he has presided over the sharpest decline in the NHS since Mrs Thatcher.

Wonder which one of his 'minions' advised him to sneak that in. Creep!!!

Something on the lines of it being important tonight to pay tribute to our armed forces - it led to the heckle - it just seemed cheap to do that in thus context- him not the heckle.