Conservative Manifesto

I suppose the idea is that, if you own your own home you are more likely to feel you have a stake in your country. Because you own a tiny bit of it. There is a lot to be said for that idea, but it shouldn't be at the expense of the stock of social housing.

What is needed is more and more really affordable houses being built privately. I think the government is doing all it can to promote this by making developers include a certain number of affordable houses in their schemes as a condition of getting planning permission. That is the road first time buyers should start out on.

There is something to be said for both points of view. Council estates can turn into ghettos of lawlessness, making it hard on the decent residents.

But how many of those 'affordable' houses really are affordable to local young people, possibly on low wages? I know they aren't in my area - they'd have to cost well under £100,000 to be anywhere near it!

I thought 'affordable housing' was the term used for 'social housing'.

It is here, anyway where builders of private estates have to include a certain proportion of 'affordable housing' as well.

ET did not make comments about that house with the England flags and a white van outside; all she did was tweet a picture of it encaptioned "a house in...."
People then read all sorts of stuff into that.

By contrast, it seems to be perfectly allright for gransnetters to make lots of comments about red and white painted stripes on a house in Kensington

The government needs to make builders release all the land which they are holding on to, along with the land bought up by supermarket chains now they are not going to build many of the proposed supermarkets.

I mentioned ET but have not commented on the red and white house.

I will comment now - imo it looks a bit plain and should have a few stars added to it.
Or a few more stripes to make it a nice plaid.

People then read all sorts of stuff into that

By 'people' do you mean Ed Miliband who was reportedly furious and told her to resign?
If she made no comments why did he do that?

I thought she said that she 'had never seen anything like it'
She had led a very sheltered life then!

I did post on the red and white house thread - I forgot.
However, I didn't say whether I approved or disapproved!

My theory is that Ed M was swept up in the Twitter storm. She may have made comments later (and perhaps she never had seen anything like it before. I haven't) but the storm arose from the picture encaptioned as I said which could be interpreted in quite other ways than how the easily enraged* Twitterverse did.

*this easily enraged Twitterverseis not all of it. I rarely see any of it. In fact I heard about the EM storm from elsewhere.

I don't remember who seemed to disapprove, rq. My comments aren't personal.

We had a thread about Emily Thornberry on here at the time. I seem to remember it got quite heated...

And, of course, people have every right to disapprove of whatever they want. My point is that that same alowance wasn't made for Emily Thornberry who didn't actually say she disapproved. My interpretation of her tweet was that she was bemused by the flag and white van house, and possibly amused as well in a wry sort of way. Daft reason to make someone resign.

Affordable housing is about it being affordable to buy. Social housing is to rent. I'm on holiday at the moment in Cornwall and have just seen a flyer for houses for sale, new build, reserved for people with local connections and £72000 will buy a 40% share. Obviously not everyone will be able to afford that, but it's an opportunity for some

I think it was the cack-handed way she attempted to explain why she'd posted the photo that got her the sack.

Yes, that's reasonable GrannyTwice, as Cornwall's average income is probably similar to the area I live in. It's a pity such schemes aren't more widespread across the UK.

I think "affordable" is a vague term - but it is not the same as "social housing" is it... The country needs housing for people who are paid low wages - and there are a lot of them. It also needs shared ownership housing so that young people who aspire to get on housing ladder and have a bit more income can start to get a mortgage and stake in a property. When they move on the housing association buys back from them I believe and then finds another shared owner. www.gov.uk/affordable-home-ownership-schemes/shared-ownership-schemes.
In the states they have another model of housing - similar in a way - the condominium in which you buy the internal space but do not own the building in an apartment block. The developer or landlord owns the structure and is responsible for it and a fee per year is paid for maintenance and any shared services (gardens, basement laundry, car parking space - whatever) Perhaps this could be another way forward in this country.
Instead of supporting social housing, shared ownership or new ways of doing things, the present government have been putting money into "help to buy".

On a slightly different tack - I assume that the hundreds of thousands of newer immigrants who keep London and the south east going on low wages (hotels, shops, restaurants, hospitals, office cleaning, construction sites etc) are living in heavily overcrowded accommodation that most UK nationals would not contemplate. Otherwise the economics of the boom-city do not add up do they?

My DD managed to buy her own (tiny) house, and pay off the mortgage. On a teacher's salary too. It can be done. And that's in the South-East.

That was in response to Ana's post. Quite a few posts back now.

Exactly Grannytwice, affordable housing is for sale, housing association and council houses shouldn't be sold. If people save and can afford to buy, their ha/council home is needed for other people.

I also agree with Gtwice about Emily Thorberry buying property as an investment and to raise cash from the rents. The HA were selling it because it would raise a lot of cash for them. I have very mixed feelings about this, as a number of young/all aged people I know are investing in buy to rent to fund their pensions. Buy to rent has paid huge dividends over recent years, much better than any other investment so I understand why it's booming despite my mis givings.

jingl, I meant low-paid as in shop workers, day nursery staff and health care workers etc. Teachers are well-paid in comparison.

typical 'champagne socialist' - I will say no more

Oh right. Sorry.

My theory is that Ed M was swept up in the Twitter storm

Which is very worrying that he would react without investigating further - therefore would he be a good prospect for Prime Minister



My DBF was a teacher and earned twice as much as me, and her pension was twice mine. But then I was only a Civil Servant with a so-called 'gold plated pension'.

ethelbags There seems to be a very narrowly drawn group of people who manage to meet with your approval. It appears not to include "lower class" types - gypsies, the long term unemployed, etc., to whom you have previously referred. Nor does it include the "smug and cosy in their own homes" "hypocritical" middle classes who question the widom of selling off social housing, the "snooty" volunteers in charity shops or the "little darlings" at university.

The fact is a lot of people - whatever "class" you perceive them to belong to - are experiencing difficulties. This is true of people who live in council, housing association or privately rented homes and especially of families who are stuck on a waiting list for years or who are living in "temporary" bed and breakfast accommodation.

As to owner occupiers, if you believe all private new builds are "quite luxurious" I think you are mistaken. Some years ago, a large estate of private flats was built quite near where I live. They offered a deal whereby people could move in for an upfront payment of around £1,000, with stamp duty and legal fees paid and kitchen appliances included, which appealed especially to lower earners who had not been able to save for a deposit. But these flats are not "luxurious" and they have a uniform and rather unattractive external appearance. Internally they are cramped, with a small open plan living room area/cum kitchen, and tiny bedrooms - and they were massively over-priced.

And your assertion that owner occupiers would object to living amongst council/housing association tenants is, I believe, untrue. I live in a terraced house in a pleasant but ordinary road and my previous next door neighbour of around 14 years was a council tenant. He bought his house at a substantial discount (it having been fully modernised a couple of years earlier by the council) and then, a few years after that, he sold it and purchased a flat further out of London. It was a fantastic deal for him and one which would naturally tempt a lot of people. It gave him the opportunity to purchase a flat outright before reaching retirement age and possibly left him with some surplus money. But his good fortune meant somebody else's misfortune - an even longer wait for suitable housing because one more decent, affordable home had been removed from the social housing stock.

As to Emily Thornberry, presumably there was a reason why the Housing Association was auctioning the property. Why should she be criticised for the decision of a housing association? There are people on Gransnet who are, or have been, landlords. Should they be villified? After all, private landlords have just filled the gap created by the reduction in social housing. It has proved to be very lucrative for some - especially those that charge sky high rents for sub-standard accommodation. I feel there should be fewer private landlords and more social housing, or that proper rent controls should be introduced. But, as it stands at the moment, landlords who provide decent, secure, properly maintained accommodation at a fair rent are needed in response to a dire housing situation that successive governments have allowed to develop.