Conservative Manifesto

Magpie - I really don't know where you get this idea from that those of us who are left of centre accept everything in Labour's Manifesto. I certsinly don't expect right of centre people to accept everything in the Conservative Manifesto. Politics is far far more complex than that. I never approved to MTs right to buy, I never approved of labour not repealing it and I don't approve of this current idiocy re HA

Actually Magpie I did say that I disagreed with the irrespective of the party proposing it. I both agree and disagree with areas of all the parties' manifestos, no one party has got it right as far as I am concerned. While I would hope that 'Right to Buy' is not 'Forced to buy' I do wonder what would happen to those tenants who wish to remain as tenants. With a much reduced income stream Housing Associations will be at risk as landlords, thus opening the market for someone like Capita or G4S to take over the running of social housing just like they are slowly taking over the running of a lot of services such as cleaning and ancillary services in hospitals, prisons etc. And we all know what a fantastic job they have made of these areas.

Inside Out, London J52?

I dont know what he is thinking of.
I have sort of guessed for a while that he had a bee in his bonnet about housing.
It is like he doesnt thinks things through all the way?
He really really needs to spend some time somewhere near the poverty and low pay level, as I feel and fear that currently, he is almost clueless.

A surprising and perceptive article from the Telegraph.

Nobody will be expected to raise a mortgage for a £400K house is they are living in social housing.

It's 'Right to Buy' not 'Forcing to Buy' surely?

May I suggest that people watch the two Inside Out programmes on BBC I player.

I came across them by accident, yesterday.

The Chinese are buying up huge amounts of housing stock, sight unseen, empty and never visited. Sometimes before the properties are built and before they come onto the British open market.

The idea that it is migrant workers who are exploited in rental properties is debunked in the second programme.

The programmes certainly shook some of my ideas, and I thought I was well informed!

x

Etheltbags1 Well said.

I am sure if this was the Labour Manifesto many on here would think it was wonderful.

Apart from the well discussed moral arguments regarding the selling off of the remaining Social Housing stock, has anyone actually looked at the financial side? In for example, one of the London Boroughs such as Camden, a three bed house is likely to have a value on the open market of in excess of £800,000 so just what kind of a discount are we talking about here? an 50% discount would still leave £400,000 price. I would also suggest that anyone who can afford to pay a mortgage for £400,000 should be considering whether they should even be in social housing. This is not about helping people, it is about getting rid of central and local government responsibility for housing. If you are in a rented property and have some kind of problem such as serious illness or loss of your job, you will likely get some help, some housing benefit until you are back on your feet. If you have a whopping mortgage you are on your own. I have calmed down this morning after yesterday's initial anger at this proposal, and I would vehemently disagree with this policy irrespective of the party proposing it as part of their manifesto. It is wrong in every sense and can only make the housing crisis deepen. Soon large cities will be ghost towns, inhabited only by the often absent super rich, Russian oligarchs and exploited foreign labour crammed in 12 to a room by a landlord raking it in from the taxpayer.

I think the idea of selling off social housing is a good idea. It is a way of getting everyone to raise their expectations, I could not afford to buy on the open market but now I own a house with only a little bit owing and I am so proud that my home looks different to the other council houses ,it is mine, I can do whatever I like to improve it. I have been known to scrimp on food/clothes just to afford my repairs but I am proud of that.

I was educated in the 60s and we were all told to expect to aim for a good job or we would end up as 'fodder for the factories'.

Therefore is it not a way of getting those on low incomes to aim for a better job/to save more and to see that being in social housing is fine as a temporary measure but ultimately to aim for their own home. I feel there is still a stigma in living in social housing.

jane10 You say "we don't get involved in forum flare ups and just quietly vote our own way" and yet Magpie's original post appeared to set the "point scoring" tone of which you complain - and the derisive term "usual suspects" was surely designed to invite comment.

Rather than relying on personal and rather insulting remarks - such as referring to those who think differently from themselves as "zealots" (fanatic, extremist, militant), it might be better for those who support these Conservative policies to present a reasoned defence.

On the issue of Right to Buy, a report entitled "From Right to Buy to Buy to Let" stated that more than one-third of Right to Buy homes in London are now in the hands of private landlords. The report went on to say that "the financial cost to taxpayers and local authorities of the Right to Buy, including increased welfare spending due to the higher Housing Benefit payments being paid to tenants in ex-council homes that are now charged at market rates."

and

"Local authorities are now frequently forced to rent former homes back at higher market rates in order to discharge their statutory homelessness duties."

As the news revealed tonight, several people in housing association properties said the proposal might well encourage them to vote Conservative. In a climate that encourages a "look after No. 1" approach, it is perhaps understandable that there appeared to be little thought for those people who are unlikely ever to be in a position to buy and for whom the problem of finding a decent home with an affordable rent will be further exacerbated.

I agree with Mishap that the relentless push for parents to work more and more hours, with their children often spending from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m. in private nurseries housed in inappropriate buildings and run by poorly paid and under trained staff, is not necessarily a step in the right direction.

Three year old children aren't at school, Jess.

One of their big pledges was that anyone working on minimum wage for 30 hours would not have to pay tax. It's below the tax threshold as it is!
What an idiot.

I am utterly appalled at the idea of that the Housing Associations should be forced to sell off properties. Which certainly in London will eventually get bought by rich investors who will sell on at vast profits. Give it 20 yrs or so.

Then as I said on another thread the ordinary lowly paid working people. Refuse collectors, road sweepers, the office toilet cleaners, bus drivers, sewage workers will not be able to live in the city and without these services that smooth running of our big cities could collapse.
It really frightens me.

Cos a bit like setting off in a supertanker with a cargo destined for Hong Kong and then getting the crew to vote on destination every few days maybe?

Re the other promise - childcare - aren't most of the kids in that age group already in school? They are here.

We should have a referendum every 5 years.
It is ludicrous that we are still stuck to something that voters voted on in 1974 or whenever it was in the 70s.

Selling off social housing sounds a terrible idea.

I am all in favour of a referendum. We are sure to get lots of programmes about it beforehand Mishap!

The other evil thing about the Tory housing promises is what they did to those same people who had one bedroom too many for their perceived housing needs with the bedroom tax.
Somehow I do not think they will be wanting to buy their housing association or council properties.

Even Nick Robinson says the Tory Manifesto promises are uncosted, and he's a Tory.

bbcsignups.external.bbc.co.uk/inxmail4/d?q00p5zki0ghble00d000000000000000jw7xphgq6359

Lots of housing association property built originally by councils.
Corollary = most council property now transferred out of council ownership???

(if so, how are they going to raise money by selling their best ones off ?)

But lots of HA property has been built by the HAs over the years. Their original remit.

Yup! Anything built by councils will be sold off under right to buy! x

Have I got this right:
a. Councils will be forced to sell off their best council houses (largest, poshest postcodes etc) on open market when it becomes available.
That money will be used (by whom?) to build "affordable" homes. Presumably for private sale. (to first time buyers? to buy to let landlords?)

b. Meanwhile (and unconnected to a.) housing association tenants will be offered the opportunity to buy their homes from the association at a discounted rate.
No additional money for housing associations.

Is that the gist of it?
He says it so quickly he sounds like the fairy godmother.

"There is £8 billion more a year for our NHS”

This actually refers to the Conservatives’ pledge on future funding for the NHS. If the NHS in England makes no efficiency savings and funding rises only with inflation, the estimated funding gap will be at £30 billion by 2020/21.
If it makes savings of 2-3% that gap falls to £8 billion.
Some have questioned how likely it is for this more optimistic savings target to be achieved.
If the NHS doesn’t make £22 billion in savings then the next government will need to pledge more than £8 billion in order to close the funding gap, or the quality or quantity of services will be at risk.

table draft 5

“[In the last parliament] we were […] able to expand every year the money for the NHS”

Health spending rose in each year from 2010/11 to 2014/15.
Over the whole period it went up by £5.5 billion from £108 billion to £113 billion. These are all in 2014/15 prices.
Population growth outpaced health spending between 2010/11 and 2012/13, so health spending per person fell by 0.4%.
Costs are also rising. The number of over-65s will be up by 10.7% over this parliament, and spending on retired households is nearly double that on non-retired households."

This is what Full Fact has to say on the Tory pledges about the NHS.
If you want to see the rest of the facts the article is on www.fullfact.org

That's pie in the sky if anything is. Actually, they will privatise the NHS.

I meant Durhamjen that there are a lot of us not necessarily a majority. I'm leaving this thread now as the relentless attempts at points scoring are among the things that have turned me off from current politics. Bet I'm not alone. Bye!

You could be right on the first part GrannyTwice.