Defence or unwanted interference?

Why do we need to 'establish difference'? It's usually perfectly obvious! There are times when treating everyone the same is perfectly appropriate and times when it's discriminatory. Playing games with terminology doesn't assist in either case.

Insofar as a grading according to skin colour may be necessary for some purposes a neutral system is required that does not imply that e.g. white or black is the norm.

How about something based on the Pantone colour system?

It is the government who has got things wrong.
They want everyone labelled into little boxes.
I refuse to do those tick box things at the end of some government forms.
[not sure if they still have them?]

Yes, Lilygran We label and categorise so as to establish the difference, not to ignore it and treat everyone the same.

I quite agree again.

I thought we were talking about an article written by one woman about one particular situation. I should have realised that it would soon stray off into "political correctness gone mad" territory.

It's funny how often black people are described as having "chips on their shoulders" when they express a view that is different from the white population or when they try to stand up for themselves. My husband was thought to have a "chip on his shoulder" because he refused to answer to the English name that his white colleagues had assigned to him.

I personally feel that the woman who wrote the article was being unnecessarily unpleasant in her choice of words and general tone. However, I don't understand why her expressing such an opinion should then be seen as an opportunity to start banging on about political correctness.

And *soontobe" I'm not quite sure what you mean by "the racial situation in this country is becoming over egged". If you mean that you think racism isn't really much of an issue, I wonder what qualifies you to make that pronouncement since you are white and are unlikely to have experienced it.

I don't think 'non-white' is acceptable, soon because it suggests that 'white' is the standard. It is a minefield and as bags says, the acceptable terms keep changing. A brief history: in the ignorant 1970s us teachers used to talk about EFL (English as a foreign language) and then it was pointed out that people resident in this country weren't foreigners so we started to say ESL (English as a second language). Then it was pointed out that many of the learners actually spoke several languages so that term devalued their heritage. So we started saying ESOL (English for speakers of other languages). Other terms have gone through similar processes but I won't go there because some of the obsolete words are now actually offensive. The really awful thing is that we are all, constantly, labelling and categorising other people to establish difference.

Going out later, so it will have to be tomorrow.

I will start a thread, so as not to be accused of derailing this one.

When I worked for the Government, about 15 years ago we had to fill in a lengthy form answering all kinds of personal questions.
In return I got a slip of paper telling me where I worked and that I was 'white Caucasian'.
Crazy waste of money.
As far as I was concerned I was a civil servant.

I tend to agree with thatbags.

She may well have still been feeling angry and quite het-up when she posted it and not looking for glory.
It may well have prevented the young couple being further abused - who knows if it may have become much worse if no-one had intervened?

Should we walk by on the other side?

Why is the scenario janea outlined deemed very unlikely? Why is is less likely for a "person of colour" to step in and help someone else? I regard that as a racist view.

I'm a person of non-colour. Fading out of here. It's getting bonkers.

Absolutely, thatbags.

And the very name "political correctness" shows that it isn't about the basic human grace of politeness but about some stupid ever-changing rule that someone somewhere invented to keep tripping everyone up. That's all political correctness does: gives people who defend it an excuse to attack others over trivia.

Good morning janeainsworth.

It's okay by me for people to write any article they want to about anything.

Or almost.

The scenario you imagine is very unlikely. I don't think it is so easy for black people to patronise whites.

By the way, I too hate the expression 'person of colour'. It's so twee. But if persons of colour want to be called that I respect their wishes and use it.

The fact that people feel the need to apologise just in case they might inadvertently have said the wrong currently out of favour word or phrase, shows how ridiculous political correctness is.

I have now googled.
Yep, that term is now not right.

Good. Very good. I never liked it.

So sorry, if I have offended anyone whatsoever. I did not know it had changed. I did see the term used on gransnet a few months ago, so assumed that it was ok. The term to use.

Apologies once again.

I am beginning to think that gransnetters have their own unique acceptable code on this.

I never thought "person of colour" was a good term.
But I do not work in the public Government world, so am never up on the latest terms.
So it is non white now?
No wonder older people have even more problems. They can be 20 years out fo date without realising it.
Even 1 year out of date [which not at all sure I am] is deemed wrong now.

The non white people in the real world are not bothered by this much, if at all. It is only whites who are so anguished.
[I dont even like the term white either. Stupid term]. Really ridiculous situation. I do think whites need to get a grip. They are the ones with the problem. The rest of the world is getting on with its life.

There are several questions here.

Should we follow the letter of the law or the spirit of the law? If we go by the letter, we can still be bloody nasty without transgressing.
Is racism in the language or in the heart? does it matter which?
Can non-white people be racist or are they all perfectly PC toward other races?
Should we stop arguing about how many angels can stand on the head of a pin and just welcome the angels when they appear? (or is it on the point of a pin? Must get the terminology exactly right even if I am not certain I can define the concept )

The last question is sarcastic, in case anyone did not recognise that.

But so-called "politically correct" terms keep changing. What is 'correct' one year is incorrect and even called racist another year. If one is polite and respectful, one is not being racist or mean whatever words one uses. It's not the words that matter but how they are used.

I used the term "of Asian lineage" to describe someone. Do not tell me this is wrong in any way. It is purely descriptive, just as someone might describe me as "of European lineage". "Person of colour" is not neutrally descriptive in the same way; it's a mere label. For now. It'll change as have all the terms that preceded it. I'll stick with 'mere' descriptive terms when I need them, thanks.

That - what is being politically correct for its own sake? Do you mean being a complete idiot who doesn't understand why certain terms are more acceptable than others but uses the one that has been labelled as pc and then sighs as they do so and makes a pathetic comment?

Here we go again. And anyway fwiw is it the term that is broadly accepted in the UK by those it is used to refer to? I thought it was a USA term? But anyway, it's the decision of that group that matters. WTF does political correctness have to do with describing people with particular characteristics as they choose? I'd call it educated , intelligent, thoughtful politeness. But no let's have a silly discussion about being pinkish

Apostrophe!!! How do they get in??

Respect people, yes, and be polite to them and about them. Be politically correct for it's own sake, not bloody likely.