Nicola Sturgeon not standing for election

Just because Welsh is compulsory as a subject in Welsh schools doesn't mean that all pupils will be able to speak two languages when they leave school.

In areas where Welsh is not the language used at home for example, a lot of children are unenthusiastic about learning it at school. Unless the school is bilingual, Welsh lessons are just that and children can't be forced to learn if they're disinclined.

My other point is that it is costing £millions that could be spent in areas where it is desperately needed and where Wales is so lagging behind England in its services.

Yes, I agree! But there seems to be very little appetite for 'change' or 'modernisation' except in very gradual stages...

I think it is important to understand the language of one's heritage. Not a Highlander so no history of Gaelic in my family but I am conscious of not even being able to pronounce place names in my home country.
So while I do not think Welsh , Gaelic or Irish Gaelic should be a stick to beat the "foreign English" about the head with, it would have been a great loss for the UK if these languages had disappeared altogether.

I do agree that these languages should not be lost in the mists of time Soutra, that would be devastating, but making it compulsory up to GCSE level, translating every official document into Welsh with the subsequent waste of paper, changing every street name into dual language at great cost etc is going too far imo.

Especially as we are supposed to be in a period of 'austerity' with 'cuts' to essential services - which are worse in Wales than England.

There seems to be a bottomless pot of money for some projects.

I suppose it depends on whether or not the Assembly feels it is more important to forcefeed a language to the people than spend that money on health, welfare and educating the nation's children to equip them for the wider world.

Welsh speakers may be in the minority but they have the right to read forms etc in their mother tongue . Road signs changed years ago so hardly costing Wales cast sums now. Possibly Welsh would be more widely used in Wales now if it hadn't been banned in schools for many years

This is such a reasonable question POGS and, in my opinion, shows what a mess politicians make solving short term problems when they should be looking at the long term.
- Some areas of the United Kingdom are devolved.
- They are the Scottish Parliament, the National Assembly for Wales, the Northern Ireland Assembly and the London Assembly.
- This mean they have been granted statutory powers from the Parliament of the United Kingdom.
- These powers are carried out by the executive bodies; the Scottish Government, the Welsh Assembly, the Northern Ireland Executive and the Greater London Authority.
- Different powers have been devolved to different areas. These powers are still held by the UK government and the devolution could be repealed by the UK Government.
- As far as I understand it you could stand for election of a devolved body, i.e., a Members of the Scottish Parliament (MSPs), an Assembly Member (AM) in the Welsh Assembly, in Ireland a Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA), or in London a London Assembly Member and also a Member of Parliament (MP) for the UK and also an Member of the European Parliament (MEP).

Devolution is different to federalism as the powers are controlled from the top - the UK Parliament "allows" the devolved areas to make decisions. If we had a federal system the UK would be divided into decision making areas - including the existing ones - and they would send MPs up to the UK Parliament taking their power to that level.

I do hope this helps and doesn't make it even less easy to understand ... [no crossed fingers emoticon]

A brilliant explanation, Gracesgran. Should leave no room for doubt now.

Thank you Gracesgran, also Bez I like your sensible idea too.

The need for all schools to teach Welsh from the reception age started at the beginning of the 90s or end of the 80s. This was before the referendum on the Assembly so was well in place by the time that came into being.
There has been a report suggesting that one of the reasons Wales has such problems recruiting medical staff is because to an outsider the names of the Health Auhorities means nothing to them and they have no idea where they a would be going. I know someone trying to recruit for any Welsh hospital - even as a locum - and it is almost impossible.
I agree with both the fact that native Welsh speakers should be able to read documents in Welsh and also have phone calls etc in their chosen language but it could be a choice to have either/or with paperwork. Many bodies dealing with multi languages must have a system in place for this. It costs twice as much ink, paper an in some cases extra postage for some documents to go out in dual language.

I have just been watching Nicola Sturgeon make a speech to Scottish Business women and do keep wondering why she sounds like an intelligent women speaking to those she considers intelligent while so many from other parties just sound arrogant to me. Maybe it's just my own bias.

My post was just meant to be an explanation POGS but my preference would be for a federal system where the parts of the UK - and I would divide England down too as I believe Yorkshire would be quite capable of running itself in its own interest - held power and ran themselves.

These "parts", call them what you will, would then pass power up to a UK parliament. I like Bez's idea of dividing the week and keeping the cost down although, if the "parts" were looking after themselves, one day a week might be enough for the UK Parliament and they needn't all go either we could send them proportionally from the number voted into the "part".

This would mean we go from the paternalistic "powers down" system to a people run, "powers up" one. We would be more responsible for voting the right people in but they would be more accountable. It would also mean that party politics would come second to local need and that would be no bad thing.

But that is only my opinion

Gracesgran

Welsh speakers may be in the minority but they have the right to read forms etc in their mother tongue
Of course they do, but it does seem a waste of paper to send everything out in English and Welsh on separate sheets of paper. Welsh speakers who cannot speak English should of course have their bills, etc, sent in Welsh if they request it. No-one would deny them that.
Street names are still being changed - that is going to be a very long and very expensive job.

And I never said that Welsh should be banned - just that it should be an option as a subject in schools - but always offered.

Thank you for the above explanation Gracesgran.

although, if the "parts" were looking after themselves, one day a week might be enough for the UK Parliament - have we actually noticed that the MPs are not actually sitting any more - has anything fallen apart whilst they are campaigning?

www.walesoncraic.com/english-motorists-confused-by-welsh-satnav-voice-that-tells-them-to-go-over-by-there/

Sorry, couldn't resist (sent by a Welsh friend who lives overseas)

Thanks for the clear explanation, Gracesgran, and I agree with your very sensible suggestions.
A very good point about Nicola Sturgeon, too, and I think that's the key to her appeal.

rosequartz, how many welsh speakers who do not speak English are there? If born in Wales then I am welsh? I speak English but I choose to speak in welsh when possible , why should I not have the right to read official papers in the language of my country ? How much would it cost to write to every person in Wales asking them if they want all documents etc in welsh or English . The reason for the shortage of doctors in Wales is they do not want to work in the poverty stricken areas in the South and they do not want to work in rural areas because of the driving between hospitals, farms, villages etc .

Anniebach you are not reading my posts, just putting your own interpretation on them.

How much would it cost to write to every person in Wales asking them if they want all documents etc in welsh or English
Probably a lot less in the long run than sending out every document in both languages on separate sheets of paper. And better for the environment.
They could just put a form in each bill etc in Welsh asking that if anyone wished to receive their bills in Welsh only in future to send back the enclosed form.
You say you speak English but choose to speak Welsh when possible, so there would be no problem for you interpreting your gas/electricity/council tax/water bill.
19% of the population speak Welsh - but not all of them would speak Welsh only and be unable to interpret a household bill and fill in a form requesting one in Welsh in future.

I had a friend who taught in a S Wales school. Until she was 5 and went to school she had never spoken a word of English as she lived in mid-Wales. Because she was a native Welsh speaker she was asked to teach her reception class Welsh rather than get in a dedicated Welsh teacher. She thought it was absolutely ridiculous as many of them could not speak English - their first language not being Welsh but various other languages from around the globe. She said she thought her first priority would be to teach them English before Welsh.

Anyway, we digress.

To get back to Nicola Sturgeon:

www.scotsman.com/news/education/plan-to-teach-gaelic-in-every-scots-primary-school-1-3026548

rosequartz, I speak English because I have to, I speak welsh because I want to and because it is the language of my country

I am not against it at all, anniebach, just the compulsory teaching from Early Years to GCSE when time could be spent learning something less insular and of such narrow use for a child's future and the waste of money when resources are so stretched and services so much worse than in the rest of the UK.
But if just a few people out of the 600,000 served by the NHS in our area prefer to read the hospital notices in Welsh that makes it all right even if they have to wait longer for their operation or not have the drugs which they would get in England.

Even the father of Carwyn Jones went for a hip (I believe) operation privately because he just couldn't wait any longer. But if the letter telling him he would have to wait longer than if he lived in England was written in Welsh too, then that would make it all right.

I would call it a question of priorities, essential services should come before vanity projects.

You will not agree so -
Shall we call a truce?

No we will not agree rosequartz , I do not see wanting to keep the language of my country from dying out as a vanity project , and for me calling it a vanity project is an insult

Well, we're not going to agree, but I did not mean you to take it as a personal insult anniebach, it is just my (and that of thousands of others) point of view which I think we are entitled to state in a free country.

I think the views would vary from county to county, person to person and perhaps those people who feel less strongly about it should be able to opt out of compulsory Welsh language education for their children.

What I do find insulting to many people in Wales is that they are forced to go to England for essential operations such as cataract, hip replacement etc, and to access vital cancer drugs which are available in England and not in Wales - and have to endure living in accommodation such as a holiday caravan to be able to access these drugs.
I feel there is a difference between essential and desirable services and health and education are essential imo and sadly lacking behind.

I agree, Anniebach.
The same could be said of all languages spoken in all small countries. Denmark has a population of about 5 million. There are lots of countries that have populations of less than a million, but we do not expect them to abandon their indigenous languages.
Wales is part of the UK and the EU, but it is also a country in its own right. There is no reason why the Welsh language should not be learned by all its population.