How the Conservatives plan to save £8bn in welfare cuts

When will they learn? Are you referring to the coven (I include myself) or politicians or welfare cheats?

When will they ever learn? - as Joan Baez sang.

Whitewave, I think I would ditto all your posts on this thread. You are so right that Osborne has talked up an economic recovery that just doesn't exist. We came up a little but since then we have bumped along just above the bottom. All the austerity talk is just to frighten everyone so they can carry out their ideological changes and destroy the benefits system, destroy the NHS and destroy jobs in the government.

We recovered from the debt of the last war by investment. The US recovered from the Great Depression by investment. All parties are offering either austerity or austerity light. It is counter intuitive to invest to recover but Keynes proved that austerity and low wages are not the answer and we have understood this and gone with it in the past - why not now?

The really rich already have their assets off shore and definitely safe from any government

jo1book well given that they aren't paying taxes on these assets will we notice?

Yes g2 what I find so difficult to understand is that by every economic measurement the Tories have failed and yet seem to be so good at pulling the wool over people's eyes. Of course they have 90% of the media wrapped up,we mustn't forget Murdoch in this who is a sworn enemy of Millaband together with the owner of the DM who is a don-dom, we also have the brothers Grimm who run the Telegraph so it is quite a battle to get over an alternative scenario to the great British public.

If Labour get in the rich will move their assets off-shore like a huge tsunami! The middle income earners will pick up the slack.

Oh I agree WW - the point I was trying to make is that they are ideologically motivated and nothing to do with economics although of course they will be presented as in the best interests of the economic recovery

There are over three thousand employed to track benefit fraud, three hundred employed to track tax evaders

g2 the thing is that the Tories would argue that the cuts are everything to do with the economy, that is how they can persuade the population to go along with the cuts. If they simply stated that they are ideologically opposed to the welfare state they would have a very hard job persuading a huge amount of voters.

Tegan

I know OPs can't control the direction of a thread but i can't help but feel it would be a shame if we just started talking about welfare in general and not these particular changes. Whitewaves point about austerity etc is well made. Many families with young children are probably spending all their child benefit - if that is reduced, then so is their spending power and there is then a knock on effect on the economy. Not that I think that's the most important argument though but it's a sound economic one. But welfare cuts are nothing to do with the economics are they and everything to do with neo - liberal political ideology. But is this a step too far? It will hit a lot of 'hard working families'

I was just about to say what Mishap has already said; and it was Camerons father who helped create offshore accounts I believe . After everything I've said recently I've done a uturn and am going to vote Labour because at least I know that people at grass roots level have the same beliefs as myself. imo political parties use the first few years to make sure they get re elected and it's in the second term that they show their true colours.

The tax evaders/avoiders I most dislike are those who whilst actively ensuring that they do not contribute in any way or very little to the British economy, use their power and wealth to influence political decisions via the media and network that ordinary folk simply do not have access to.

I am firmly against any kind of charging for a doctors appointment jo1book It is difficult enough for some people to find the money to pay for a prescription never mind being given a consultation invoice too. This will only stop people who really need to see a doctor from doing so.

Also, whitewave, there is more money owed to people who do not claim benefits than is ever taken by benefit fraud.

The benefit cheats I dislike the most are those who come back to this country for free health care after spending years abroad. My daughter's in-laws live in the U.S. during the winter and come back here for the summer to have their health checks and to freely avail themselves of what is on offer. Incidentally, didn't the RCN advise charging a nominal amount for a Doctor's appointment? That would raise some money?

Well if we look at what is actually fraudulent both in Benefit claims and tax evasion/fraud year on year you can see where the biggest problem is.

0.7% of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud amounting to £1.2bn.

Tax evasion/fraud amounts to £4.1bn. - that of course does not account for any aggressive tax avoidance schemes.

It seems to me then that the government's resources would be better put towards collecting the correct amount of tax, however, benefit fraud should also be prevented but would not be nearly so lucrative as tackling tax.

But not to harm those in real need in the process. I know where I would start, and it would not be cutting benefits to those in need.

The welfare cheats are a miniscule minority - I would guess they are more than outweighed by the money lost from rich tax-evaders. We need to eliminate both.

Shouldn't we also be more organised and less hopeless at catching those who choose life on benefits? Of course, we must help those in genuine need but if we catch the cheats then there will be more money available for those who really need the help.

Have been wondering where the silent man has been during this election now we know - he is in hiding in case too many awkward questions are asked about the proposed cuts.

We are the 5th most wealthy country in the world - it is a disgrace - our welfare system is one of the most advanced in the world but we are losing it, and one way of protecting it would be to ensure that the Tories - who are ideologically apposed to a welfare state - are not voted back into power.

We also forget that there is extraordinary wealth in Britain, we own enough real estate and financial assets to repay all existing debt and still have the equivalent for 6 years of UK GDP. To do this we must become more organised and less hopeless at collecting evaded tax.

I have been predicting this and I am glad that Danny Alexander has started to leak a few details. I quite like him. My bet is on all those payments such as Child Benefit, any disability benefits and others which were excluded from the adding up when it comes to the limit for Universal Credit (currently £26,000, but likely to be reduced), will now be included in the calculations.

Well this really should come as no surprise - we knew that given the amount of cuts needed something like this was on the cards. They, of course will spend the day denying it.

The biggest problem that will come out of the next bout of austerity is that it will once again curtail any growth in the economy - just like it did when the Tories introduced the first lot of austerity cuts to a green leaf and growing economy - the result was a depression, from which we have never properly recovered - e.g. salaries are not yet at the 2010 level.