I might vote Tory but that doesn't make me a bad person

AS I said there may be a few extremists who take tings too far. But the majority of demonstators didn't behave like this Pogs. So why focus on the actions of a dew

"VE Day veterans must be wondering what the hell they faught for. They sacrificed for freedom and democracy , look what is happening, makes you bloody weep."

Actually many of those who survived the conflict became strong socialists. They were the generation that established the NHS, the welfare state (from the cradle to the grave), nationalised the coal industry and the railways. If they are wondering anything it is probably what happened to the society we built with care for all and why the hell is it being sold off.

Who has said their actions were justified?

Who is sanctioning their actions?

Eloethan

The difference is if it was done by a right wing organisation I would condemn them too.

Unlike it would appear a lot who are sanctioning their actions.

POGS Violent, threatening and criminal behaviour is not confined to those with left wing views - as history demonstrates only too well.

For the third time, but just a bit this time, from what I said on another, very aimilar thread:

"..... as I have often said before ,on threads about religion and about politics, doesn't the effect it has on Gransnetters show just how divisive and unpleasant hare held views can be."

Good distinction, RQ. Pity more people don't make it.

Just back from archery. gracesgran, I guess I just didn't understand your post then. Still don't so I'll just forget it

trisher

I honestly do not believe that had for arguments sake Labour had won those who voted for a right wing party would have daubed shit on a WW11 war memorial or tried to block Downing Street or promote anarchy.

Principle!

I don't think those who voted Tory are 'bad' people and part of me understands why they might choose to vote for a party they consider will make the UK economically sound. I can even, on a bad day, understand why some people feel that cutting the Welfare Budget is very worthy, as there are some who deliberately use and abuse the system and bring out the latent fascist in me.

But something in me truly believes in the socialist principal that 'he ain't heavy, he's my brother' and the ideal that we can build a fairer society.

The OP said: I might vote Tory but that doesn't make me a bad person and I'm am really fed up of all the vitriol aimed at people like me. When did the country become so intolerant and judgmental? Why are we not allowed to hold different opinions? Debate is good and can achieve progress but insults just cause division.

None of this explains or clarifies kittylester's issues with this other than voting Tory not making her a bad person. There is no explanation of what vitriol, how she was categorising "people like me", other than as a Tory voter or in which way people had become "so intolerant and judgmental" other than by making her feel they thought she was "bad".

I just addressed the bit that was clear but the one thing I did say is that the groups that the press and people having discussions will characterise in a particular way, which is what the OP seemed to refer to, used a cartoon version of very few people within that group to describe the whole group. I specifically said that it is obvious that not all Tory voters are "bad" (whatever bad means in this context).

You seem to have decided to be personally offended by what I said and then aimed to give offence. I cannot stop you doing that but it does not mean that my theory - which is all it was - is any less valid.

I did not attack you personally and say that you were those things, but that your post came across as that.

You may be none of those things but your assertion that all Tory voters are as described in your previous post would appear to be a very narrow view.

What you said did not sound as if it was open for discussion, it sounded like a statement of fact not an offer to debate the motives and qualities of Tory voters.

In fact, I need not have posted what I did, just referred to the OP which is a probably a better description.

I think this says more about you than me
I have always thought that such a meaningless quote.

"Why the hell can't people accept a democratic election took place and the people gave a mandate for government."
Well Pogs it is quite simple if you have a generation of young people who have seen their hopes and dreams squashed, who are heavily in debt (thanks to the government) who are working zero hours contracts for a wage they can't live on (thanks to the government) who have little or no hope of ever owning property or getting housing at a reasonable rent (thanks to the government) and who have little to lose. You really can't blame them if they demonstrate to express their dissatisfaction. I am appalled that they are dismissed as 'rent-a-mob'. There may be some activists amongst them but I think for the most part they are young people who can't take any more.
And I do have some experience of demonstrations I was in the anti-war march when Blair the warmonger ignored a peaceful expression of the views of thousands. Maybe these people thought they were not going to be ignored and maybe the huge police presence aggravated things.

I put forward a theory in answer to a premise that may or may not be true rosequartz. It is a shame that you feel the need to make personal remarks such as Your post comes across as rude, bigoted and very narrow-minded and, what I would like to say would be deleted.

A sad way to discuss anything and presumably tells us you find it easier to attack me personally than the argument. I think this says more about you than me.

I will put a hard-earned fiver towards a one-way ticket to whichever fascist state Lily Allen would like to move to.

You only have to look at the graffiti on the WW11 monument to see the word 'scum' written, I know to whom I would attribute the word to. It wasn't anybody right of politics was it!

VE Day veterans must be wondering what the hell they faught for. They sacrificed for freedom and democracy , look what is happening, makes you bloody weep.

Why the hell can't people accept a democratic election took place and the people gave a mandate for government.

Gracesgran your post Sun 10-May-15 10:21:46

Lumping people together and trying to make out that they all subscribe to the points of view that you have posted is - what's the word - I will say ludicrous as what I would like to say would be deleted.

Your post comes across as rude, bigoted and very narrow-minded. Which is what you are accusing Tory voters of being.

Extremists belong to extreme groups (left and right), and as far as I know Tories would not come into that category, although you are trying to imply that they do.

Just watched a snippet on The Sunday Politics show of Peterborough's MP, Stuart Jackson - Conservative, during his acceptance speech he is heckled and booed by Labour activists, similar to those at Whitehall last night, almost certainly not representative of the majority of Labour supporters. Completely unacceptable behaviour from very poor losers.

I'm not on Twitter but if I were I'd tweet Rod Liddle's comments in the Sunday Times to vacuous Lily Allen who expressed the sentiments "just thinking what other fascist regime, I could live under now." Perhaps she'd like to consider Burundi - Rod Liddle writes - "if you think our election was dire - in Burundi, during their recent elections - people were set on fire in the street, opposition supporters detained and tortured and there are 50,000 fleeing the country. The European Union have given Burundi £6 million to fund "genuine, credible and inclusive elections, where all the parties are comfortable to participate and respect civil liberties and political rights and freedom of expression should be part of the political solution" - well that went well then! Strangely opposition leaders want this funding withdrawn.

Whilst I understand disappointment when their party of choice is defeated, It pisses me off to read flippant remarks that Britain under a Tory government is somehow tantamount to living in a fascist state.

Exactly

The Conservative strategy of whipping up hysteria about the dangers posed by an imaginary alliance between Labour and the SNP was interpreted by many political commentators as a way of frightening UKIP voters back into the fold.

According to a YouGov poll released just before election day, one in three UKIP voters feared Ed Miliband would share power with the SNP after the election.

It was obviously in Nicola Sturgeon's interest to intimate that a deal between Labour and the SNP would be on the cards if Labour got the most votes. Miliband's categorical denial of this - even to the extent of saying he would rather not gain power if it required the backing of the SNP - is likely to have been perceived as deeply insulting to the Scottish people. It created the impression that Labour, like the Conservatives, saw the SNP as some sort of devious, malign force, rather than as a political movement that represented a large number of Scottish people - some of whom wished to split from the UK all together but others who just wanted more say in decision making.

This suited the SNP agenda brilliantly as it ensured that after this election, many more Scottish people would, in the light of Miliband's perceived distaste for them, see an independent Scotland as the only way forward.

David Cameron is said to be a committed unionist but he took a risk in exacerbating the tensions between Scottish and English voters. Others in his party, it has been suggested, would be quite happy to see Scotland leave the UK - thus greatly enhancing the chances of a right-of-centre party being elected to office in England on a regular basis.

It is really irrelevant thatbags. Why do you feel the need to pick that pip out of the orange. I was trying to answer the original premise that "you see me a bad person just because I voted Tory."

I did not address it as a political question but one relating to a lazy press and lazy readers/watchers who were happy to buy in to these simplistic descriptions drawn from very few in the groups.

As I said in a previous post the right wing press set up the caricatures and this one, if it exists, has rebounded on those who feel that some see Tory voters as "bad" people.

And how many is that? Not thousands, presumably? More like a few dozen at most?

How do you know this, gracesgran?

This isn't the only forum I visit thatbags I also belong to one which the far right would love and almost all of the shouty Ukippers on there have said they ended up voting Tory.