Labour Party, Lib Dem Party - where to now.

Are we being too pessimistic?
113 seats changed hands, and 50 of those were SNP seats. Labour actually took more seats from the Tories than vice versa. The Tories took more seats from the Libdems than the Labour party did, which hopefully means that the Libdems will not trust Tories again.
The Labour party surely needs to look at the similarities between it and the SNP, rather than going for the middle ground. If Miliband hadn't cornered himself over the SNP and played into Cameron's hands, things might have been different.
Although Cameron wanted the Union to remain, ever since the referendum he has treated the SNP as if they are not part of the Union.

I agree Jen.

There was a post on another forum about 'that note' from the Treasury which said all of the things that I'd suspected in that a]it was a joke and something that happens in a lot of countries when Governments change; usually there's a gentlemans agreement that it will be kept as 'a joke' but not in this case. The Minister who picked it up first of all only stayed in office for a short time and left under a cloud [not that that matters really] and didn't get 'the joke' as it's a comment usually made by civil servants whenever a minister asks for money. Cameron wouldn't have 'kept it in his pocket at all times' and the woman in the audience who asked the question would have been a plant. I do think it's all very underhand and shabby, although [as he admits] it was a silly thing to do under the circumstances. I think a lot of people are now quite scared that the LibDems won't have any influence in Parliament. The S.O. was talking to someone yesterday who voted Conservative because he'd had a tax cut; when the S.O. pointed out that it was, in fact, Nick Clegg that was responsible, he sratched his head and said 'oh yes; I'd forgotten that'. I do wish [and I'm saying this on a thread about Labour and the LibDems] that I wish I could get the point across that, if this Government does good things that I agree with I will be pleased and support them for that and that things I don't agree with are not 'because it's a Tory policy/idea' but because I think it's bad for the country and it's people. It was an election, not a referendum and nothing is cast in stone; polices that are unjust can still be faught against..not for the sake of doing so but for the greater good of everyone. [just needed to get that off me chest].

As voters north and south of the border voted as instructed by The Sun (vote SNP / Tory), we've got a Tory majority government.

Last year David Cameron helped the SNP by the way the referendum was conducted, now Nicola Sturgeon has returned the favour by helping the Tories win a majority. We were headed for a hung parliament, but when Nicola Sturgeon said (not once but several times) that the SNP would work with Labour to "lock the Tories out of Downing Street" that tipped all the undecideds into the Tory camp because they know that the SNP are separatists whose sole purpose is to destroy the UK.

If there had been a minority Tory government, the SNP, Labour, Libdems and others would have had some influence and could have stopped the worst Tory policies as the LibDems have done for the last five years, but now the Tories can do what they like which suits Sturgeon better- she can say "yet again we've got a government we didn't vote for".

Early in the campaign she was reported to have said that she'd prefer Cameron to Milliband as PM. I think for once she was telling the truth. She has only one agenda and is prepared to bide her time until the Scots voters are sufficiently alienated to vote to leave the UK, which of course would suit Cameron fine as the Tories would be likely to stay in power indefinitely.

Or am I being too cynical?

Why blame the Scottish voters of course varian for the fact that Labour didn't get a majority in England? If England wanted a Labour government they would have voted for one.

Are you being 'cynical' ? No. How can that be if you are simply regurgirating what the Tory press fed you?

of course

Speaking as someone who sees more of Angela Merkel than British MPs I noticed on the 'day after' that both Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband looked different - because they were speaking the truth. They weren't stumbling over words and ready-written memorised sentences and phrases.

Anglel Merkel remains her self and that is the secret of her success. Se is what she says and is always polite and easy going. Whoever succeeds to lead labour should be convinced of what he/ she is doing and speak from the heart. The public sense the dfference.
Looking back I'm sure David Miliband could achieved so much more.

As to the SNP they only represent 1.5 million people, less than UKIP votes, each one represents 2,500 people. they may have all those seats but few will shine in parliament as they had an easy way up compared to many London MPs who represented over 10x as many voters.

More SNP bashing it's almost turning into a form of racism

If we do lose Scotland a large part of the blame in my view will lay at the Tories and their friend's door. The constant SNP bashing and suggestions that somehow they are illegitimate is disgraceful. Particularly in view of what message Cameron was delivering last autumn.

I we "lose" Scotland it will be because Scotland choose to be lost whitewave. You can't blame any other parties for failing to deliver what the Scottish voters obviously want.

Personally I think the SNP are thriving on the North/South divide which is as apparent as ever. Living in the North East of England we might aswell be in Outer Mongolia as far as any of the political parties are concerned.

Meant to say any one party not any other party. Ooops.

In what way re the NE gillybob?
I agree that some parties are London centric.
And in what way would you say that the NE differs from the NW in that regard would you say.

Was Tony Blairs son elected, by the way? I he will always be tarred by the way he took us into the Iraq war, but people forget that he helped bring about peace in/with Ireland and also Yugoslavia [when the rest of the world seemed to wash it's hands of the atrocities there].

An ex Lib Dem said the cause of the swing to the Tories was the election became a battle between Scottish nationalism and English nationalism and I agree ,

The sole purpose of SNP is not 'to destroy tthe UK'.
They will push against austerity measures - hopefully for the benefit of the whole UK.
At an appropriate stage in the future another referendum on independence will be held (eg if the UK votes to come out of Europe when Scotland wishes to stay in).
If/when Scotland does go, surely NI, Wales and England would cope.
I've never heard anyone suggest that RUK is so utterly dependent on Scotland.

No, Anya, I don't blame the Scots. I am Scottish. I blame the SNP, who unlike the LibDems, put party before country.

Oh -and I'm not regurgitating any views of the Tory press - I try to give the Tory press a wide bearth - I'm talking from my experience of politics in Scotland and England.

Thanks to the separatists , Scottish people have far less influence than when they were represented by Scottish ministers, and huge parts of England are only represented by one party which most people didn't vote for.

Wales needs Scotland , a UK without Scotland will be an English K

I wouldn't say it differs very much at all soontobe in as much as all parties are fixated with the South (and specially in and around London). If any of the parties cared about the rest of the country they would be forcing companies out of the capital which would help spread the wealth around, instead of encouraging more growth in already very wealthy areas. Why else the proposed high speed rail link? Another airport etc.? Here in the NE we have been campaigning for the A1 (the link between England and Scotland) to be made into a dual carriageway. If it were not so serious and so many people were killed and seriously injured, it would be a joke.

How can a party be to blame for how the Scottish people vote varian?

Surely the Scottish people were all of free mind and could place their vote where they choose.

I think that the SNP will not be happy until the UK is broken up. I have always said on these forums that as a Geordie I have always felt closer to Scotland than to the South of England but lately I am left wondering.

I think we all need each other Anniebach but perhaps some of us just won't see it until its too late.

I agree gillybob.

x post. I havent read your latest post.

My thoughts too gillybob. If you have to blame someone varian why choose the party instead of voters/supporters?
If /when there are unhappy rumblings because of unpopular tory policies, who will you blame?
The party leaders? The voters who thought putting them in power because it seemed a good idea at the time? Or the amorphous 'party'?
So I suggest you do blame the Scots - after all it's the people who make up the electorate ( some of whom may even say they made a thoughtful, conscious decision rather than being hoodwinked).
They might even say they put country ahead of party - which could explain why so many deserted the ideals of the Labour party they'd previously held dear.

There are two different maps of the election. One goes on area, and gives vast swathes of blue, so it looks as though most of the UK voted Tory. The other gives equal weight to each seat, which is really what happens in parliament. The large areas of red look very encouraging. After all, in parliament each MP only has one vote, so all areas should be given equal weight.

By the way, has anyone heard anything about Jeremy Hunt?
The health secretary has not been named yet.

Can't see Blair's name in the list, Tegan, but Kinnock's son got elected.

Jeremy Hunt's staying where he is. I'm surprised you didn't know that, durhamjen!

Only announced an hour ago, Ana. But kind of you to tell me.