Labour Party, Lib Dem Party - where to now.

Tony Benn used to say 'be critical, not cynical' varian [but I agree, it is difficult not to be cynical].

The SNP has been very successful in gaining half of the votes in Scotland. Although this lead to them getting 56 out of 59 Scottish seats - an unfair result, I obviously do not blame the SNP for that.

What I do blame Nicola Sturgeon for is her ill-judged strident rhetoric which gave the Tory campaigners all the ammunition they needed. Millions of English voters were told repeatedly by the large army of Tory canvassers that she had said the SNP would work with Labour to "lock the Tories out of Downing Street forever" and this scare tactic worked.

Paradoxically the SNP now have virtually no clout in parliament, in comparison with the result we might have had with a Tory minority government, but that would also have given Labour, the LibDems and others some clout, so, as I am becoming cynical in my old age, I do wonder whether that fatal remark was cock-up or conspiracy?

Thanks jen; I must have got him mixed up with Kinnock Jnr but assumed he would be standing this time round.

Only announced an hour ago, Ana. But kind of you to tell me.

Jeremy Hunt's staying where he is. I'm surprised you didn't know that, durhamjen!

There are two different maps of the election. One goes on area, and gives vast swathes of blue, so it looks as though most of the UK voted Tory. The other gives equal weight to each seat, which is really what happens in parliament. The large areas of red look very encouraging. After all, in parliament each MP only has one vote, so all areas should be given equal weight.

By the way, has anyone heard anything about Jeremy Hunt?
The health secretary has not been named yet.

Can't see Blair's name in the list, Tegan, but Kinnock's son got elected.

My thoughts too gillybob. If you have to blame someone varian why choose the party instead of voters/supporters?
If /when there are unhappy rumblings because of unpopular tory policies, who will you blame?
The party leaders? The voters who thought putting them in power because it seemed a good idea at the time? Or the amorphous 'party'?
So I suggest you do blame the Scots - after all it's the people who make up the electorate ( some of whom may even say they made a thoughtful, conscious decision rather than being hoodwinked).
They might even say they put country ahead of party - which could explain why so many deserted the ideals of the Labour party they'd previously held dear.

x post. I havent read your latest post.

I agree gillybob.

How can a party be to blame for how the Scottish people vote varian?

Surely the Scottish people were all of free mind and could place their vote where they choose.

I think that the SNP will not be happy until the UK is broken up. I have always said on these forums that as a Geordie I have always felt closer to Scotland than to the South of England but lately I am left wondering.

I think we all need each other Anniebach but perhaps some of us just won't see it until its too late.

I wouldn't say it differs very much at all soontobe in as much as all parties are fixated with the South (and specially in and around London). If any of the parties cared about the rest of the country they would be forcing companies out of the capital which would help spread the wealth around, instead of encouraging more growth in already very wealthy areas. Why else the proposed high speed rail link? Another airport etc.? Here in the NE we have been campaigning for the A1 (the link between England and Scotland) to be made into a dual carriageway. If it were not so serious and so many people were killed and seriously injured, it would be a joke.

Wales needs Scotland , a UK without Scotland will be an English K

No, Anya, I don't blame the Scots. I am Scottish. I blame the SNP, who unlike the LibDems, put party before country.

Oh -and I'm not regurgitating any views of the Tory press - I try to give the Tory press a wide bearth - I'm talking from my experience of politics in Scotland and England.

Thanks to the separatists , Scottish people have far less influence than when they were represented by Scottish ministers, and huge parts of England are only represented by one party which most people didn't vote for.

The sole purpose of SNP is not 'to destroy tthe UK'.
They will push against austerity measures - hopefully for the benefit of the whole UK.
At an appropriate stage in the future another referendum on independence will be held (eg if the UK votes to come out of Europe when Scotland wishes to stay in).
If/when Scotland does go, surely NI, Wales and England would cope.
I've never heard anyone suggest that RUK is so utterly dependent on Scotland.

An ex Lib Dem said the cause of the swing to the Tories was the election became a battle between Scottish nationalism and English nationalism and I agree ,

Was Tony Blairs son elected, by the way? I he will always be tarred by the way he took us into the Iraq war, but people forget that he helped bring about peace in/with Ireland and also Yugoslavia [when the rest of the world seemed to wash it's hands of the atrocities there].

In what way re the NE gillybob?
I agree that some parties are London centric.
And in what way would you say that the NE differs from the NW in that regard would you say.

Meant to say any one party not any other party. Ooops.

I we "lose" Scotland it will be because Scotland choose to be lost whitewave. You can't blame any other parties for failing to deliver what the Scottish voters obviously want.

Personally I think the SNP are thriving on the North/South divide which is as apparent as ever. Living in the North East of England we might aswell be in Outer Mongolia as far as any of the political parties are concerned.

If we do lose Scotland a large part of the blame in my view will lay at the Tories and their friend's door. The constant SNP bashing and suggestions that somehow they are illegitimate is disgraceful. Particularly in view of what message Cameron was delivering last autumn.

More SNP bashing it's almost turning into a form of racism

Speaking as someone who sees more of Angela Merkel than British MPs I noticed on the 'day after' that both Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband looked different - because they were speaking the truth. They weren't stumbling over words and ready-written memorised sentences and phrases.

Anglel Merkel remains her self and that is the secret of her success. Se is what she says and is always polite and easy going. Whoever succeeds to lead labour should be convinced of what he/ she is doing and speak from the heart. The public sense the dfference.
Looking back I'm sure David Miliband could achieved so much more.

As to the SNP they only represent 1.5 million people, less than UKIP votes, each one represents 2,500 people. they may have all those seats but few will shine in parliament as they had an easy way up compared to many London MPs who represented over 10x as many voters.

of course

Why blame the Scottish voters of course varian for the fact that Labour didn't get a majority in England? If England wanted a Labour government they would have voted for one.

Are you being 'cynical' ? No. How can that be if you are simply regurgirating what the Tory press fed you?

As voters north and south of the border voted as instructed by The Sun (vote SNP / Tory), we've got a Tory majority government.

Last year David Cameron helped the SNP by the way the referendum was conducted, now Nicola Sturgeon has returned the favour by helping the Tories win a majority. We were headed for a hung parliament, but when Nicola Sturgeon said (not once but several times) that the SNP would work with Labour to "lock the Tories out of Downing Street" that tipped all the undecideds into the Tory camp because they know that the SNP are separatists whose sole purpose is to destroy the UK.

If there had been a minority Tory government, the SNP, Labour, Libdems and others would have had some influence and could have stopped the worst Tory policies as the LibDems have done for the last five years, but now the Tories can do what they like which suits Sturgeon better- she can say "yet again we've got a government we didn't vote for".

Early in the campaign she was reported to have said that she'd prefer Cameron to Milliband as PM. I think for once she was telling the truth. She has only one agenda and is prepared to bide her time until the Scots voters are sufficiently alienated to vote to leave the UK, which of course would suit Cameron fine as the Tories would be likely to stay in power indefinitely.

Or am I being too cynical?