EU citizens living in UK.

There are six other countries in the EU that do not allow it, either, but I do not know which ones.

At the moment, jane, Danes abroad cannot have dual nationality. The person I am talking about would have to give up her birth nationality to have UK nationality. It changes in September.

www.danes.dk/en/advocacy/dual-citizenship/

Have you seen the forms, jane, and the citizenship tests?
It seems to me they are designed to put people off applying.
You do not pay £2 per week, do you? You pay the full amount, and have to give your bank account details before you fill in the rest of the form.
It gives the impression that the money is the most important thing.

jen marrying a UK citizen does not confer citizenship and the right to vote.

If someone comes here and marries a UK citizen, they have to live here for 5 years and apply for indefinite leave to remain, just like anyone else. The only difference is that they can then apply for citizenship straight away, whereas people not married to UK citizens have to wait another year.

The UK does not require people to give up their own citizenship, so I don't see what the problem is.

www.commonwealthimmigration.com/uk_citizenship_naturalization_visa_immigration.html

You give the example of someone living and working here for 20 years having to pay £1600 - that's less than £2 per week for the privilege of becoming a citizen of what is still one of the best democracies, and most tolerant societies in the world, however much you may disagree with that.

Because they live in the UK and pay tax and NI?
It must be an anomaly. Iif you think it's okay for them to vote for the council if they pay council tax, it should also be okay for them to vote for the government if they pay government tax.

In which case why would those of us who are UK citizens not have the right to vote? Cannot back both horses here - many of us still pay a lot of UK tax.

It's not an anomaly. It's one thing to give someone the right to vote in local elections if that's where they live and pay council tax etc., but if they're not UK citizens why should they have the right to decide how the country is run?

I agree with you, Bez. It will depend on whether Cameron wants us to stay in or come out as to whether he allows all EU residents to vote. He is the one who decides, apparently.

Doesn't get over the anomaly of allowing them to vote in local elections but not national. Doesn't the same reasoning apply?

'...save UK from making a dreadful error of judgement.'

Hmm, rather a presumptious statement, Bez.

Maggiemaybe
1.5m foreigners entitled to vote according to the Telegraph.

I think that the two are inextricably linked - so far the vote to leave has had far more publicity but the negative side of leaving will have a huge impact on UK. Many people think companies are bluffing when they say they will pull out if UK if the leave Europe but they do actually mean it. The EU is a huge market for so many companies. Nissan said at the time that they only built the factory in Tyne and Wear because it opened the doors to the EU for them - UK welcomed them whereas other EU countries at the time did not. Now it is a different story and they do not need UK so much.
If UK leaves it would not be so easy to rejoin. People living in EU have friends and families remaining in UK and not everyone is small minded and selfish.
There was a huge argument before the referendum when we finally decided to join - it was seen how much better it would have been for us if we had joined initially and could have had more say in the original treaty. At the time we had great trade agreements with Australia and New Zealand etc which we no longer have and would need to look around again for replacements for the EU which is the largest importer of our goods.
I doubt people would relish going back to queuing in the non EU passport section when on holiday in Spain etc and having to abide by the duty free quota and quite possible needing Visas to go on holiday - UK is not part of the Shenghen agreement.
It is possible that Brits living, and many working, in EU have a more informed opinion of the benefits of being a member and save UK from making a dreadful error of judgement. Despite the downside for some people of living in the EU they see the benefits of the alliance.

So living here for over 20 years, having children here, teaching other people's children here for over ten years is not enough. You have to pay for the privilege.
But someone who comes here and marries an Englishman within a couple of months has shown enough commitment, is that right?

That's not a given, Bez. According to the Telegraph, the government has not yet decided on the franchise for the plebiscite.

Just thought I'd throw that in to make me appear much more intelligent than what I am.

voting 'for' not 'with'

Quite, Bez, but they probably won't be voting with the interests of the UK as a whole will they? It's like asking turkeys to vote whether to keep Christmas or not!

Yes it does - and since it has been known that there will be a referendum there has been a large increase in the number of Brits living in EU countries registering to vote - after all it will affect us more than most people I would think - as well as those of EU origin living in UK.

jen all pensioners and people on benefits can vote, unless they are guests of HM the Queen.
The point I'm trying to make is that if you have universal suffrage, which was fought for in blood by our grandmothers' generation, you can't use payment of tax and NI as criteria for eligibility to vote. It's like harking back to the days when only landowners could vote.

There has to be something deeper than that, a commitment to the country, to take part in the decision-making process, if you don't have the right to vote by virtue of having been born here.

Does that apply to UK referenda as well, Bez? (which is what we're actually talking about here)

British people living in another EU country can vote in UK elections - your vote is in the last constituency you lived/voted in when you lived in UK. The right to vote is for 15 years but there are thoughts that this may be extended indefinitely

Because it's better than living in the EU country from which you came?

Australia? New Zealand?
I know young people who are going through the very expensive strenuous and stressful process in both those countries.
The result will not even be citizenship, just temporary visas with the hope they could be made permanent.

If you are from the EU and are able to live and work here why would you bother to pay for citizenship if you could not feed your children? Why would you want to stay here at all if you could not afford to feed your children?

I think it's five years, janea. That seems reasonable to me. The example I gave is of someone who has lived here for twenty years and still does not have the right to vote in general elections, although s/he can in local. Surely if you are eligible to vote for your local councillor you should also be eligible to vote for your MP, and on whether you want the country to stay in the EU.
How many pensioners are there who do not have the right to vote?
How many people on benefits?
EU citizens living in the UK can pay NI and tax and help support those on benefits and pensions, but not have the right to vote on who they want to say where their tax and NI goes.

should have said some of those on benefits, I realise that many people on benefits still pay tax.

How long does someone have to live here to get right to residency Jen?
Is that the same as indefinite leave to remain? there's a subtle difference between being allowed to stay and having the right to reside somewhere.
Where do you draw the line?
Do you think that someone who has migrated here from Bulgaria, for example, and been here a year, should have the right to vote in referenda or elections?

You seem to be saying that they should be allowed to vote because they pay tax and national insurance. The logical consequence of that is that anyone who doesn't pay tax and NI (many young people and older people and those on benefits) shouldn't be allowed to vote either