The Budget

It must be an absolute headache for the civil servants trying to achieve the 12bn cut.
If it is achieved the UK will look a very different place by the next election.
Interesting how the government is trying to change the narrative about the working poor. Not sure that the voter will buy into it though. Fooling the people springs to mind. Unless of course the early 19th century attitude to the poor prevails

I am actually living that nightmare..tax credits make up my partners wage ..he works 6 days a week over =48 hours ,he is younger than me,we have teenager aged 16 all clothing adult size..I am pension age and to work full time is exhausting,there is little work locally ,we live rurally in a village poor transport links so teenager and partner need fares to largest town 50 mile round trip,school trips,packed lunches,fares for college,we live on my overdraft and no there are no trips out for any of us ,theatre,cinema,the car sits on the drive to save petrol,my partner is self employed caught in the nightmare that is zero hours contracts and sub contract work no holiday pay,no bank holiday pay no work =no money,robbing peter to pay paul, and playing catch up is the game....we have saved the government thousands our crime for not having a pension pot ..for the last 12 years I have been a kinship carer and unusual though the circumstances in our case having to fight a lengthy court battle took every penny and hundreds of thousands of pounds and the necessity to give up our good jobs for 10 years has left us living on the poverty line....

QT today and DC advised the house that the government intend to cut tax credits for the working poor. He went on to declare with some confidence that the resultant gap will be made up by higher wages. So that's OK then. This made me wonder what type of job pays the minimum wage and how many people are on the minimum wage. Will get back with that info if anyone is interested

Can't wait to see how he intends to bring about those higher wages!

1.2million people on minimum wage . Those on below that not possible to quantify as illegal. Children also not quantified.
Jobs
Clerical workers
Ambulance staff
Care workers
Nursery staff
Retail workers
Cleaning staff
Restaurant staff
Hotel workers
This is just the beginning there are many more
My question is this. Are we confident as the PM seems to be that all these people will have a pay rise to compensate for the cuts

How can higher wages be enforced..small firms unable to find more for the wage bill,more and more zero hour contracts and self employed contracts..more unemployed to claim job seekers..to save on tax credits ..nice one Dave..

I watched PMQs too Whitewave and thought HH was good. As she pointed out those on minimum wage would have to have a 25% rise on the day that they cut the Tax Credits to put them in the same position and that is not going to happen, is it? Although companies like the big supermarkets could and should be doing it, small businesses would struggle.

She also made the point that although the Conservatives chime on about not leaving our "children" in debt in the future it seems to be OK to put children into poverty now.

A lot of them will be working for the council or government departments, on part-time work.

Did you notice how Camoron attacked the Labour party by saying they wanted a low wage economy?
It's mainly Labour councils who are paying the living wage.
Going to be interesting to see how many employers attack him, downtoearth, and withdraw donations to the Tory party.

secure.38degrees.org.uk/page/m/74c07a40/2d1c5aab/796cb8f4/4631d13b/133944146/VEsD/

To ask Cameron if he would very kindly not put poor hardworking families into greater poverty.

One of the more harmful ideas is the fact that they are going to change the way that child poverty is assessed.
The reason statistics are collected is to monitor the scale of a problem and measure progress over time.
If you change the statistical base, you try to change the perception of the problem. You distort measurement over time by creating a discontinuity. You also try to create a changed response.
It's the same with collecting NHS or unemployment statistics. Change the goalposts and people forget where they were originally.

How can an idea be a fact??

I though goalposts got moved rather than changed?

Thinking about the government attempt I g to change the narrative with regard to child poverty. It actually makes no difference where the line is drawn because we know that it is almost impossible for a family to live on the minimum wage where both parents work. So really they can set the child poverty line where they like - most people will understand the actuality behind the figures. Perhaps it is time to look at the richest say top 10% and see how they are managing in this time of austerity. Not sure how I will do a budget for them though as their world is out with my experience. Perhaps a gran could help me with ideas!!!!

Any grans offering to admit to being in the top 10%?

So fou d out that top 10% household income I.e.medium is £151000. Now must work out if that is after or before tax plus how many people that represents
Busy today getting ready for walking hol in the Dales

It includes assets, such as houses and businesses. Our business is in a sector that is not doing well nationally, in any way.
So yes, we are in the 10%, but our income is totally tied up with our self employed business. And all businesses are different.

How can it include assets such as houses? My house is worth more than £151,000 but I'm sure as hell not in the top 10%!

soon . No that figure is earned income. If it included assets anyone with a house would be included. If your income from business in the form of drawings or profit after tax being paid directly to you is ,151k or more than how lovely you are rich!!!!!!

soon is correct - when the press talk about the top 10% it includes assets such as property, savings and pensions.

So anyone owning a house worth £151,000 or over is in the top 10%?

That doesn't seem right. There must be an awful lot of people in that top 10%...

'The entry level into the top 10% of wealthy households is currently £967,000 in net assets, the ONS said, while membership of the top 1% comes with assets of £2.8m or above.'

From a 2011 Guardian article.

Sorry, 2012.

www.theguardian.com/money/2012/dec/03/richest-10-uk-households-40-per-cent-wealth-ons

Yes Ana. Not counting the mortgage part of it of course.

And in case anyone is wondering, no our earned income is not above 150k per annum!

Ana I expect there's no exact science here!

It could mean that 90% of the population have so little that it doesn't take much to be in the top 10 %.

This is a question for Radio 4's More or less.