The Summer Budget

And you say you aren't sarcastic, durhamjen...

Having a spare £6000 is too much is it, roses?

I presume you know disabled people and wish them to be hidden away, rather than have a holiday in their lives, something nice to look back on when they are too disabled to get out of the house?
The fact that the man needed two carers to go with him should tell you something. Do you know, Petra, how long it took him to save up that £6000?
Sorry, forgot, he shouldn't have been allowed to.

Yes GG. Why not have slightly different personal allowances for people with disabilities? Och its all so complicated! I'd expect to pay my own way until I needed financial help. Mainly by cutting my coat according to my cloth. I wouldn't expect expensive holidays (and I don't anyway!)

Rather than spitting at me "and other benefits that you would probably say she did not need" -

Grace, that was directed at Petra, not you, because she thought the man should not have been allowed to use his benefits on a trip to China. The beginning of that sentence says, Petra, so why do you accuse me of spitting at you?

I think that is probably the idea Jane10. However, the idea of the disability payments was that it cost you more to live and work with a disability - one article says £550 a month but that is just as annoying as not taking it the cost of disability into account at all as it must vary greatly - this was why they were not taxed originally. Perhaps there should be a higher tax level for disabled people to take this into account.

I suppose the question is, should I have to pay more to help myself with my disability if I have a higher income? I am not sure there is an easy answer so I would come down on the fence and say possibly.

grannyonce!

GG said
We shall know next week of course.

shall we just wait and see

Drat those typos!

Should it not be a matter of income being taxed irrespective of how it is derived? £20,000 im benefits must be as taxable as £20000 earned through work? Surely if the super rich and the massive multi nationals are made to contribute at appropriate levels that would be reasonable? If everyone paid their taxes (as assessed) live would be simpler all round.

You are jumping the gun a little rosesarered . What has been suggested is that disability benefits should be taxed - it hasn't actually happened yet. Obviously some would not pay tax as they still would not reach the tax threshold and might save very hard for a holiday and some people would be enabled to work and might then be able to save for a holiday. To be honest the question about going on a holiday is a little misleading. Should benefits be taxed? I don't know, but it is worth looking at. I am annoyed that we were not able to discuss this prior to the election. All we knew is that they would take £12 billion a year out of the benefits bill and now all these ideas are being floated.

We shall know next week of course.

On the case of the man going on holiday to China with two carers! He certainly had too much money to spend , quite unbelievable, and glad that it won't be happening now , we hope.

" I refuse to set out the belief that all that any one party does is bound to be bad"
exactly GG there are good and bad policies to my mind with all of the parties, but some people just will not have that I'm afraid and see everything in black and white.

I think they are floating a lot of "ideas" just to see the reaction and possibly manage expectation. I have just heard, on the news, that they are thinking of cutting the benefits cap further. It is already going to be reduced from £26,000 to £23,000 but this would take it down further. They have also said they are looking at cutting housing benefit.

Jen I do not want anyone to suffer, nor do I want all benefits to be means tested where it does not make sense to do so but taxing the ones which are not taxed does seem to have some sense to it as far as I can see. Rather than spitting at me "and other benefits that you would probably say she did not need" - which I certainly hadn't said - I am interested in people sharing what are the positives and negatives of anything that may happen - that is why I asked the question in the first place.

I refuse to set out with the belief that all that any one party does is bound to be bad although my views may be coloured by what I have seen in the past and, because of this, I do not see the Conservatives as being careful about those hurt by the changes they make and am concerned to know if this may be the case again.

just read this.

theconversation.com/many-benefits-scroungers-are-hard-working-people-you-rely-on-for-your-care-44027

It puts the benefits budget in perspective.

Gracesgran, your OP was not about disability benefits, it was about cutting benefits on the whole, or so I thought.

Anyone else heard the latest, that they are going to change the definition of poverty so that it does not include any reference to money?

Petra, my mother-in law had a lot more than that in her bank account when she went into a home, all through care allowance and other benefits that you would probably say she did not need. This was because she rarely spent anything, did not eat much, never drank anything other than tea or water, and did not go on holiday.

She's been in a home now for just over a year, and her house in on the market. She has been paying £1000 a week to the home, until it was decided that she needed nursing care.

Obviously everybody should be means tested, as far as some are concerned.

I heard today that they are thinking of getting rid of ESA and putting everyone on it on JSA. The difference is quite substantial, and allows no acknowledgement of disability. A woman on the radio said that she has to drive everywhere, as she cannot walk. It does not allow for the extra expense. She said she might not be able to afford to get to work.

The trip to China cost £6,000. That was for the 3 people. He was told that his bank a/c was building up and was asked if there was anything he wanted to do. China was the answer. All his money came from benefits.

Well, Jen here is a ten-day "Taste of China" holiday from Virgin www.virginholidays.co.uk/destinations/asia-&-far-east/tours/guided-tours/a-taste-of-china

£1,599 each. With two carers that is £4,797, plus spending money.

I think by "extending" the bedroom tax they mean charging more in some areas Jen. I don't like the sound of that if people have no where to move to but I don't really know enough about what they are suggesting at the moment.

Apparently Cameron calls the leaking of these ideas "rolling the pitch", i.e., preparing the ground to see how it is received

Jen there really is no point in getting cross with those who are, in a general way, in agreement with you.

The question, originally, was about the taxing of disability benefits. Generally I can see this makes some sense but I would be concerned about those who only just fall into the tax system or do so because of a small amount of benefit. I think that actually means I feel the point at which the personal tax allowance starts is too low. The government seem to think this too so I will watch to see how quickly they put it up. Sadly, I don't trust them to do this without the LDs there to twist there arms (metaphorically).

I think it is a bit naïve to wish for holidays out of benefits. I would like everyone to live in wonderful housing, have a good income and yes, go on holidays to places like China but there is a limited tax pot. Yes we should make it bigger by making sure all that should pay their share and yes we must support those in need, not just with money but by respecting them but while those currently paying into the pot cannot always afford suitable housing or holidays I do think we have to realise that will not be popular.

I think we need to ensure that everyone with a disability has their needs met. At the moment two people can receive the same amount which may be more than enough for one persons needs and nowhere near enough for another's.

cpag.bsd.net/page/m/49bd89ef/5ed88827/76b3f5b1/30ed16af/4170866568/VEsE/

If you do not want child tax credits cut contact your MP. This is being organised by Child Poverty Action Group.

That was in 2001, fourteen years ago. Before this government/ austerity came in. This government/austerity has impoverished the disabled and is continuing to do so. I doubt whether anyone now could do it.
All disabled people have to wear sackcloth and ashes, do they, just to show they are not getting too much from the system?

You do not have to be terminally ill to have a bucket list, do you? I have two life limiting illnesses. Wish I could afford a bucket list, but I do not begrudge others.

I am confused Durhamjen by your post.

You are a prolific poster who post after post, link after link points to the austerity measures causing the disabled to become poverty stricken, cannot clothe, feed or heat their homes.

Yet now you accept it is possible to save enough money whilst on Disability and other benefits no doubt, to save enough for a holiday to China with 2 carers, which will cost thousands. There was no mention this was a 'bucket list' of a terminally Ill patient or did I miss that.

I have absolutely no doubt some people on benefits live hand to mouth but this scenario does show that the benefit system is not necessarily causing hardship to all, as link after link states. Perhaps it would be a good thing to reevaluate the payments so that those who don't even have a cat in hells chance of paying for a weeks stay in a caravan get higher benefit payments, which is what the benefit system is surely for.

I might sound hard but there is an irony in one minute saying the government/austerity has impoverished the disabled but in the next breath accepts it is possible to save thousands for a holiday .

So disabled people aren't allowed to have bucketlists, like everyone else?
Being disabled is enough of a problem without being told that if you can save for a holiday, you shouldn't be getting as much. How much does a holiday in China cost, anyway?

theconversation.com/fact-check-who-has-been-hit-hardest-by-the-bedroom-tax-39414

A fact check on the bedroom tax before the election. They cannot extend the bedroom tax because there is nowhere for anyone else to move to. I'd like to see that programme by Ken Loach where he interviewed people who had lived in their homes for 40-50 years, and were in tears at having to move out because they could not afford the bedroom tax.

I actually do not want Osborne to do any in the list. I want him to tax the rich properly so the poor do not suffer any more. I want him to put the minimum wage up to the living wage. No harm in dreaming, is there?