English Votes for English Laws

AB I was not accusing you of racism
on this thread there has been snide remarks about 'the English' which if they were targeted at the Welsh or the Scots would have had people up in arms.
I hope I am not rude or telling lies both of which are abhorrent to me.
I was trying to be correct and polite in my responses and probably should not have included the last line in my post (which I repeat was not directed at you - sorry if you took offence) but my cage had been rattled by a few earlier posts.
in response to earlier posts the Scottish have not been included in the decision making re English laws as there would be some bills that related to England and Wales only, England Wales and Northern Ireland only, as Scotland so far as I know is not lumped in with these. Seems fair to me.

Durhamjen

" I'd be surprised if POGS was from the north. She does not sound like anybody I know from Hull or the North East ".

Your point is??????

All I can say to that is thank goodness I recently went for a weeks holiday to the Robin Hood holiday park just outside of Bridlington and on to York where we stopped in a smashing B&B.

Why thank goodness!

Because the people I met from the North East were not representative of yourself Durhamjen, they were friendly, curteous and had a good sense of humour. I don't think I met anybody who was bigoted or particularly narcissistic but they obviously are there.

Durham has clothes banks along with the food banks as well, Annie.
I'd be very surprised if POGS was from the North. She does not sound like anyone I know from Hull or the North East.

Well said, Annie. You actually realise what the thread is about, the indecent haste to get this rushed through before the majority of the English realise what's hit them. We do not all think we are superior; some of us actually believe in fairness. How long did the Welsh and Scottish referendums take?

So some people think that the Magna Carta is immaterial, but this is the biggest constitutional change since then, and some of us want a say in it.
I still have a copy of a comparison of the seven main parties' election manifestos - sad, I know.
Cameron promised this in the first year, not the first two months. A year means serious consideration in Parliament.

Oh POGS, was that racist? A person from one part of a country giving her opinion on another part of the country . The racist card is so easy to play , it's not just the UK which is divided but England is by the North South divide and frustration explodes. Is anger not understandable when cities like Hull and Liverpool have to start charities appealing for clothes for children ready for the winter months, knitting groups are setting up to supply this need , I would be devastated if that was an appeal from North Wales , what is difficult for me personally is not knowing the areas posters live in , you could be in hull but I don't think you are, yet I could be so wrong . It's was partly religion and partly poverty and injustice which caused the divide in Ireland not racism and I think this is the cause of the divide in England too - not religion , I am looking as an outsider . I don't care if England has an assembly , why not, I am against the rushing through of a serious constitutional change in the UK Parliament which will cause more bitterness . In fairness to the Scots Cameron laid on with a trowel how important it was that we keep the union, now he is doing more to split it than Salmon could and that takes some doing . I do respect your views on this and appreciate your courtesy in exchange of posts

"Hell, the English see themselves superior to whole world"
Change English to The British isles and that's how I feel.

Anniebach

Whilst grannyonce is perfectly capable of speaking for herself, my guess would be her comment re 'racism' was in response to another poster not yourself, could be wrong of course.

My money would be on the recent post that said -

"The English believe they are superior to other members of the United Kingdom. Hell the English see themselves as superior to the whole world"

Sad comment really. I thought the thread had been debating rather calmly then the ugly head of bigotry showed up but there you go, proves a point that was made previously re hatred so I guess it had a use for the thread after all.

It's suppose to come in before the summer recess Ana, lawyers have said it cannot be done this way , there are no lines drawn as in Scotland and Wales

Education and NHS yes, housing yes, roads ? Very few in England have to drive to Wales, we have to drive through England to get out of the UK , is this English only ? trivial but just an example of how many grey areas there are

But Bercow's an extremely partisan individual. He'll be relishing his new powers...how ridiculous!

The Scots will vote when the speaker decides it concerns them , this is why an assembly is vital, our assembly covers education, NHS, housing, roads and a few lesser things like ancient monuments, nothing to do with our MP's, they do not vote , their job is in parliament for which they were elected as the AM's were elected , we know where we are , they know where they are

What about Scottish?

The Speaker's going to decide?

Well, we all know what that decision will be...

.jen heard the speaker will decide what will be English votes only and English and welsh votes only and everyone free to vote , so there are no boundaries as in the assembly

.grannyonce, not missing the point I know you can't vote for what doesn't exist. Wales has AM's because we had a referendum and once the yes vote won members of the public put themselves forward for selection to stand as AM's , we voted , got the AM's and the assembly was up and running

I think you accusation of racism is nasty and a thumping big lie ,

Scots and Welsh MP's could not obstruct the government , impossible

I think an English assembly run by MP's is wrong sorry, not racism , just like fairness

POGS - I was very impressed by your erudite explanation. I tried to make the same points but with far less success.
shame it is not getting through and certain posters are exhibiting quite unacceptable 'racism' against the English.

You've done your best, POGS!

[sigh]

I agree with you farnorth. The problem is that the government's ideas about who decides do not include anyone from Scotland. Why not?
A good way to divide the nation it is supposed to want to be united.

Let's just break up the Union and return to being individual countries. We've don't trust each other or see each other as equals. The English believe they are superior to the other members of the United Kingdom. Hell the English see themselves as superior to the whole world.

But if that is to happen England needs to be split up because tbh as a northerner I don't trust a southern based government in a southern capital city to consider the needs of my community.

No actually lets take it even further and return to our tribal areas. I don't trust the Brigantes or the Corieltauvi so I'd like devolution for the Parisi.

Are we one nation? If we are we should have one parliament.

English only votes for laws that affect England only - fine.

English only votes for laws that mainly affect England but also have knock-on effects for others - not so fine.

Let's hope that distinction is made sensibly by our elected representatives.

Anyone losing the will to live ?

sorry meant 'tacit'

but AB I think you are missing the point
your welsh assembly members are voted in by the residents of Wales - to your assembly
(same applies to Scotland)
England has no assembly (yet) but the English constituencies vote for their MP to represent them - they cannot vote for any EMPs (equivalent of SMPs)
all that is proposed (hopefully as a temporary measure) is that the MPs elected by English voters will act as EMPs when a bill comes before the house for debate that applies ONLY to England
previously as others have mentioned - there was a tacid agreement among the devolved constituency MPs to abstain if the bill did not affect them. Rightly or wrongly the Government feels that the devolved MPs (SNP particularly) could be awkward or obstructive.
this is not unfair to anyone and although it is not what most English voters would prefer it does redress the 'imbalance'

At least we were able to discuss it politely POGS and I do understand some points you put forward, I also accept you support it because you believe it to be fair and not to kick Scotland. I cannot change my opinion that there should be a referendum , which I am sure would be a yes and there should be an English assembly , parliament should not be involved, our AM's are not allowed to speak in Westminster , this for me is being fair to all

Anniebach

I am sorry but I have to say we have come full circle now with your last post.

Have you never heard of the 'West Lothian' question , it has been an issue for years.

I suppose there is another point to make. Devolution came in the late 90's when Labour were the largest party. This is the first time there has been a conservative government since that time so that is the reason it is now being taken more seriously. The opportunity has arisen at last, nothing Machiavellian. (that's political spin for you, easy for some to believe)

I think your view it is a ' hit back at Scotland ' and you have never heard 'a squeak' about this issue over the last 30 years actually sums up my post of 13.44.

I have tried but I think I have put my point across and will be repeating for the sake of it.

[help emoticon].

I hope it wouldn't POGS, but it could, leaving aside human rights which didn't exists then . But it can happen and i honestly believe the call by MP's for English votes by only English MP's is a hit back at Scotland , not a squeak for over thirty years and straight after the referendum in Scotland , I can see no other reason