English Votes for English Laws

I've not seen any non- English posters being anti-English. The objections to an english Parliament seem to be on cost grounds, from mostly English posters.

Would there be anything wrong in having separate meetings of MPs for English constituencies to discuss and pass matters relevant only to England, and other meetings for items of general relevance to the whole country? Same MPs, same premises, same subsidised restaurants and bars, but different days?

Wales has had two referenda about independence and they did not want it but did want the Assembly. Carwyn Jones and Nicola Sturgeon do NOT have seats in Westminster. Very few people in Wales (except Plaid Cymru)say they want a completely independent Parliament - they realise it would not be affordable and Scotland only wants powers which area paid for by Westminster.
The leaders of the Scottish parties during the election were talking about the Mansion tax in England (mainly taken from SE England) going to Scotland to pay for the upgrading they wish to do to their Health Service.
If there were to be separation would the population of Scotland and Wales accept total independence paid for with their own money from tax raising powers to enable them to be totally free with no money from Westminster? The Welsh (except Leanne Woods)know that this scenario is not practical at all for them and so are happy with the status quo. The Assembly has been good to students and to older people as far they can.
If you put in place an English only Assembly type of parliament you are simply creating an extra layer of government which would cost us taxpayers more money and heaven forbid if they start having Northern type ones too - who is going to pay for that? The local population who are so wanting it? I think not - general taxation will be the cry and who will bear the brunt of it - the poor maligned rich SE England population!!! And I don't live there! I lived in Wales before moving to France but I still pay income tax in UK and have more to pay in France as there are no real personal allowances here - I can still vote in UK but not here.

Devolved parliament in Wales, Scotland ,and NI have theirs too, and POGS has done a good job stating the facts so I won't repeat it all again, what on earth is the problem with England having it's own say?I am starting to see some anti- English sentiment appearing on this forum from one or two posters.It simply must be that, as nothing else makes sense.Just as I thought that perhaps we could have a reasoned debate after all, it seems not.If English posters had said all this about Wales or Scotland, can you imagine the furure?

Someone said that they'd not met any English person who thought Scotland should have voted to leave the Union

What I said was

I am pretty sure that England do want a union.I havent met anyone in rl who said that they dont.

A different thing entirely.

I stand corrected, Riverwalk.

An English parliament will simply be another level of government and cost us more money. If we're one nation, a United Kingdom, why should any part have a separate parliament. Once we started to set up separate parliaments we ceased to be united.

Lets be honest we've never been truly united. If asked their nationality how many say Scottish, Welsh or English rather that British.

The Scots and English couldn't stand the sight of each other until James VI/I inherited the English throne from Elizabeth I. Throughout her reign there had been border incursions. Previous generations had fought full blown wars. A political union could not and did not change the nationalistic feelings of the general population.

The English have always felt and many still do feel superior to the other members of the United Kingdom. English people know for a fact that God is an Englishman. Less realise that he's actually a Yorkshireman

DJ - you do realise the MP was being a buffoon and not serious
the easiest solution would be to divide as A-L and then M-Z

Surely, when we elect an MP we are voting for them to speak for us in the house , how can some be gagged

A conservative MP has complained that there are too many MPs with surnames beginning with Mc, thereby making it take longer to vote, so he wants them to be split into two groups, one each side when they divide in the Commons.

Exactly, Annie. The English should have a referendum on whether we need this new law.

"Restricting the voting rights of some MPs could be the single biggest change to the rights of MPs in decades – and doing so without following the appropriate parliamentary procedure is totally unacceptable.

“SNP MPs already don’t vote on English-only legislation which has no financial impact on Scotland. We don’t need a change of the rules to determine what we can and can’t vote for. We certainly cannot have this rushed through without proper consideration of all the consequences.” "

Spoken by the leader of the SNP in the Commons, who was elected to the Commons to have full voting rights. Now Grayling is saying that only the English, Welsh and Northern Irish are allowed to say what the Scottish MPs should be allowed to vote on.
English MPs will lose any moral authority they have if they go through with this.
Grayling will cause Scotland to have another referendum.

Scotland and Wales held referendums jen, England has no choice

Understand what you meant now Gracesnan, if Wales had a referendum as did Scotland we wouldn't vote out, so we are now part by choice , I hope this is what you meant

MP's in England shouldn't have any part in an English Assembly . I don't see how it can work, but they want to,push on without the consent of the people, this is wrong.

As I said earlier, if there had been English votes for English people and no others were able to vote on English laws, whatever they are, only 1% of votes would have been different since 2001; that's 38 votes out of 3800.

So why all the fuss, and why does it have to be pushed through before the summer recess? Cameron said within a year in his manifesto. There is no time to debate it, and there will not be a vote.
Scotland had a referendum. Do we not deserve one, with a decent debate about it?

If England does have it's own English assembly it should not and surely cannot use the UK parliment for debate, should it not have it's own assembly members who do not sit in the house as MP's?

Couldn't agree more Anniebach. We should have an English Assembly with delegates sent by the regions with a UK parliament in the H of P - the Assembly should be more central to the rest of England. Each assembly would then be represented at the UK parliament. Some of the MPs seem to have forgotten that the Commons is for the whole of the UK.

I think some of you have misunderstood my United Kingdom and United Kingdoms post. I was saying that the United Kingdom was brought about by wars. If now each country wants to be a part of the whole they are choosing and a fairer "United Kingdoms" should be the name. I hope that makes sense.

Votes for Yorkshire, votes for Cornwall, votes for Lincolnshire.

Why stop there, let's go back to the feudal system.

VQ

'So like the other countries we should have an English only Parliament'

Yes, that is democratic/fair and has been an issue since the Blair Government gave the referendum over devolved Assemblies/Parliaments in 1997. It was a is mistake made at the time of the referendum for devolved parliaments not to include all 4 countries who make up the UK. London did become the 4th devolved Assembly but that is a fat lot of use to anybody outside of London.

What makes you believe it was correct/right for England to have been excluded at that time?

'You can't protect the Union by cherry picking what elected members of the national parliament can or cannot vote on. If England really wants it's own say then it needs to set up a second parliament leaving Westminster to deal with national issues' (presumably you mean UK issues)

The answer is yes, I agree with you, England does need to set up it's own parliament/Assembly , 'that is devolution' isn't it!!!! . Devolution is granted to 3 out of 4 countries in the UK.

Westminster 'does' deal with 'national issues/UK issues but the problem is it also gives votes toto the devolved countries MP's to vote on England only policies/issues but English MP's are not permitted to vote on theirs.

There is no/would be no/could be no 'cherry picking' of who/what will be able to vote on UK wide issues, that is why we have the Westminster Parliament to which all 4 countries of the UK have representation. UK wide policies will be voted on by all Westminster MP's as happens now.

I ask again of all those who believe England should not have parity with the devolved nations why should England /English voters not have the same rights as the other countries who form the United Kingdom .

If either Wales/Scotland/N.Ireland had been refused the right for having a devolved parliament but England and 2 others had devolved parliaments/assemblies would that have been acceptable, of course it wouldn't.

thatbags

Gracesgran yes! absolutely! vampirequeen independence for Yorkshire. I'd vote for that.

Sock it to 'em, lily! Well said.

Wales was finally annexed by England in 1283. That's over 700 years ago. At that time in terms of government, the English throne was part of an Anglo-French hegemony in which France was regarded as more important than England. Wales was a collection of small principalities and lands on the borders already settled by Normans. These territorial lords were in a constant state of dispute and armed conflict. It is nonsense to think of 13th century 'Wales' or 'England' in 21st century terms. The Scottish and English crowns were united in 1603 when James Vl of Scotland became king of England as Elizabeth's heir. The countries were united in 1707 by Acts of Parliament of the Scottish and the English Parliament. The two Parliaments then merged to sit at Westminster. In neither case was English government imposed on another sovereign state.

If England does have it's own English assembly it should not and surely cannot use the UK parliment for debate , should it not have it's own assembly members who do not sit in the house as MP's ?

Vampire I'm afraid you're wrong on the tuition fees - it was the very fact that almost all Scottish Labour MPs voted in favour of introducing tuition fees, under a Labour government, knowing it wouldn't affect their constituents.

It was a very close vote.

I'm glad they've all since lost their seats.

So right Vampirequeen , Wales was invaded , the land given to English lords and the title Prince of Wales taken by Edward 1 and given to his son, thus it has been ever since , so yes brought about by war, same for Scotland

Not sure the Welsh would see it that way. They didn't really have a say when Edward I and his armies moved in.

I would love to see a realisation that we are not the United Kingdom, brought about by war but the United Kingdoms, brought about by consent.

So like the other countries we should have a separate English parliament with it's own elected representatives then Westminster could concentrate on national laws.

If you have laws that only English MPs can vote on does that mean that other MPs are banned from the Chamber during the debate or from the House during the vote? If so, how will this be enforced? What would happen if a non-English MP tried to enter the House at the wrong time?