Longer opening hours on Sunday

I was talking about society at large, as a whole, not as individuals- and I'll stand by that statement. Society can choose to protect the family or not- same for excellent education and health for all- rather than 2, 3 and more tier systems which create division and all sorts of societal problems linked to social division. Look for instance at Northern European countries.

Sorry gj but you said:
"Same in most European countries who value the family - the UK is very much on its own on this, following American patterns rather than European ones."
You said that European countries (societies) value the family, and that the U.S. and UK were different from Europe - it is perfectly reasonable to infer from your words that you think the Americans don't value the family.

Did I say that? No, of course not- but 'society' can choose to support families and allow them garanteed together time to bond - or not. As said, those working hours are mostly IMPOSED on families by the shops and of course, the shoppers- especially on those at the lower end of the scale- meaning mum and dad take it in turn to look after kids and rarely have time together. The stress on those families with late night shopping on Xmas Eve and very early again on Boxing Day, for instance, must be huge- and prevent families from enjoying that special time- as an extreme example.

You obviously will not be convinced- so will leave it at that. As said, whether you believe me or not- other European countries have not gone to Sunday and 24/7 shopping, for that very reason- supporting families. I like that very much- you don't. I will fight tooth and nail here to prevent the imposition of Sunday and night working hours for as long as I can, having seen the effect in the UK.

I think the implication that Americans and people who don't object to longer Sunday opening hours (even though they don't particularly want them either) don't value their families in exactly the same way as the objecters, is proper daft.

Well, she wouldn't! Lives on the outer edges of civilisation, that one.

She meant she doesn't give a flying f toss.

Neutral is neutral.
Not a good idea and not a bad one.
Hardly an endorsement!

I don't read thatbags post as saying she doesn't think it a good idea - that would mean that she disapproved and doesn't support it - she said she was neutral - no strong opinion either way.

gillybob shoe shops don't have tea rooms. #bigdifference

Same in most European countries who value the family - the UK is very much on its own on this, following American patterns rather than European ones.

thatbags, keeping shops lit and heated on Sundays surely is not environmentally friendly- surely. Those who like you happen to pass by the shop and stop, are very rare indeed. Most make quite long journeys to out of town shopping centres especially- rather than use their local shops.

Here (hardly a communist extreme left country = Switzerland)- shoppers unions are adamant they want to keep Sundays and night hours protected, especially to protect the family unit- good on them I say.

If even you dont think that it is a good idea, there doesnt seem much actual support for it. On gransnet at least.

We don't need to shop on a Sunday in one sense, but I would regard us not shopping when the opportunity arose – when the alternative is and extra journey burning diesel fuel in our car – as unnecessarily environmentally unfriendly.

We shopped on Sundays at a Scottish Tesco back in the early eighties (so it's nothing new despite all the horror and disapproval down south) when we had two small kids and no car. We went Sunday because that's when DH could come too and be the donkey (yes, we did call him that) beast of burden on the way home.

I refuse to be made to feel guilty about these choices of mine.

Of course I feel sympathy for people who have to work at inconvenient times for their family life. As gillybob said (or implied) what's convenient for one family is inconvenient for another. That's life.

What are shop workers unions, if they exist, saying about thelonger opening hours proposals?

thatbags, I knew several of the cashiers at our local 24/7 Tesco. Initially they were all told night and Sunday work would be optional- and then 2 or so years later- i went there and you could feel the tension in the store. One of the ladies was French and I taught her kids so I went to her till and asked what on earth was going on, she burst into tears and showed me the letter. No more choice, everyone has to do their share of night and Sunday hours and after school hours (she used to stop at 3.30 so she could pick up kids from school)- and no choice about Christmas eve or early Boxing day, etc. Workers at your local are very lucky if they still have the choice- most do not.

BTW, our local shop is always opened on a Sunday morning. By law, this is OK as it is wo/manned by the owners- they can open but only providing they give up their OWN Sunday, and do not force their workers to give up their family day. It's wonderful to see families walking, swimming, cycling, being together- instead of mums and dads taking it in turn and never being together. Surely with a bit of organisation, no-one needs to shop on a Sunday!

If you or your loved ones were forced to work nights, Sundays, late on Xmas eve and at the crack of dawn on Boxing day- I do wonder how much 'entertaining disapproval' you would display. A bit of empathy for those who are forced into these totally unsociable working patterns would go a long way, truly. My OH had to work very unsociable hours, and it did take its toll, on his health, on our family and yes, on me (I had to 'work' unpaid whenever he was on-call, taking the phone, making decisions for which I was totally unqualified, and losing a lot of sleep and finding it difficult to cope the next day with kids, and later with my own full time work) ... we rarely had an undisturbed Xmas dinner- and could never go away to visit my parents and family at Xmas either. But that was essential, and we all accepted it - shopping is not.

The thing is just because one person likes to browse a garden centre on a Sunday doesn't mean everyone does. Personally I do, but it would be my DDiL's idea of hell. She loves shoes though and would happily browse shoe shops for ever. The point I am making is that we are all different and shouldn't make judgements based on our own likes and dislikes. Personally I see food shopping ( well most shopping actually) as a chore but I have to admit that my busy life often means that Sunday is the only day I have left to do it.

I think it's good to have one day a week that is mostly about rest and relaxation. And I don't want to see the heavy lorries on the roads on a Sunday, which could happen if we go too far in this direction.

Howver, I am glad our supermarket is open on a Sunday. We pass it on the way back from somewhere else so we shop then, otherwise it's a twenty-five mile round trip on another day when I'd rather be somewhere else doing something else. At that supermarket only people who want to work on Sunday do so. There is plenty of demand for Sunday jobs from people of all ages around here.

I don't "think it's a good idea". I'm completely neutral about it. What has entertained me on this thread is people's disapproval. There's a lot of entertaining disapproval on Gransnet

I don't think we need any shops open 24/7 except maybe pharmacies for emergencies..but tbh they could be located in hospitals for urgent needs.

Many people do shift work and know that when they take on a job: police/firefighters/hospital staff etc etc. I think there can be insidious pressure on retail staff to work hours when they do not want to. They fear losing their jobs if they refuse. Am sure there are people who are happy to work at any time of day/night in shops but that does not mean we need them to! If people were paid a living wage they may not be as keen to work at any time of the day or night whenever the management demanded it!

thatbags why do you think it is such a good idea?

no Sunday shopping here in Switzerland, apart from airports and train stations - and long may it continue. I am not religious but families to need time off to relax and enjoy together. And practically no Sunday shopping in FRance either, although the ATAC supermarket is opened on Sunday morning for a couple of hours. Wonderful. Why on earth do people need to shop day in, day out and nights too???

I didn't mind when Tesco gave their workers the absolute choice as to whether to work on Sundays and nights, with extra pay. But there is no choice any more, which is totally wrong. Same for shops being opened on Christmas Eve till late and then again early on Boxing day. The effect on families is dire. OH had to work night and week-ends, Christmas and all- but that was for good reason, to save lives. Nobody needs to shop non stop!!!

hunge ! huge

Well said, river and gillybob. It seems clear to me that it boils down to approval ratings. Shopping for groceries from shops owned by large companies is not approved even if you buy plants. Buying plants at a garden centre is approved. Better for the children and all that tosh, what?

The fact that garden centres are often run by large companies is beside the point, naturally.

And as for health workers, well we need them 24/7 so they'll just have to lump it about a special family day.

[hunge sarc emoticon]

I really can't see the problem at all as long as no-one is forced to work a Sunday who is not already contracted to do so. My conversation with the lady in Asda yesterday gave me the impression that there were more than enough people willing/wanting to work Sundays that no-one need work them that doesn't need/want to.

Family life is very different to what it was when I was a child (I was born in 1962) My dad worked a 3 shift system, Monday-Friday 6-2, 2-10 and nightshift, all his working life. My mum worked in posh ladies clothes shop full time Monday, Tuesday, half day wednesday, thursday, Friday and all day Saturday. My sister and I slept at our grandparents house almost every saturday night so my mum and dad could have "their" sundays together.

I'm just wondering why the families of shop workers are to be considered above those of garden centres, pubs, restaurants, stately homes, theme parks, etc. The latter are popular ways of spending Sundays and people have no issue with their staff working?

None of the above are essential services e.g. health, police and utilities but it seems it's OK for those employees to work on a Sunday but not shop workers.

Durhamjen yes, TV news often only tells us half the story, check out the Arab news far more informative! In English of course.

Jingl, that would not work- as big stores would just move into them as Extras !!

Sunday shopping law... When first allowed, was for perishable goods only !!!
Who can remember when the law changed ??

This is just greed !! It does not help the country... In a lot of cases it increases our debts and therefore debts in banking!!