Longer opening hours on Sunday

thatbags You talk about "freedom of choice" but in fact it is big business that is setting the agenda. Consumers are encouraged to see shopping as an exciting and fulfilling activity and, as alea said, this starts at a young age when children become accustomed to family leisure time commonly revolving around shopping malls.

I'm not averse to a bit of shopping myself but I honestly think that a culture that elevates shopping to some sort of art form will become increasingly vacuous and sterile.

That culture has passed me by, eloethan, thankfully. And I think it probably passes by, or is passed by a lot of people. If our education system cannot help assuage the "agenda-setting" of big business, then our culture has failed already. However, parks like the Lake District, Lomond and the Trossach, Cairngorm, Derbyshire Peak District, etc, etc, etc are very popular and so are outdoor pursuits of all kinds. There are also many other interesting cultural activities that many people take part in. I do not despair of civilisation yet.

I think that the only thing that distinguishes my view from that expressed by you and alea on this thread is that I accept that people are all different and it's not for me to judge what people do in their leisure time. I suppose I do judge in that I choose differently from what you have described, as do most of the people I know, but my judgment stops there. I shrug and expect a full range of human choices from what is available.

I do wonder what it says about our values as a society. Longer opening hours in pubs was supposed to introduce a "cafe " drinking culture in the UK like in some European countries as opposed to "getting bladdered" by closing time. Pub landlords had to find the extra staff and did it work? No, drunks just staggered out of pubs and wine bars at all hours of the day.
In a similar way, we have a massive debt problem across society so is opening shops for even longer really a good idea? We all know the scenario, "I see, I like, I want, I can't afford it, but I'll max out my credit cards and I'll be happy".
Sociologists or is it psychologists know how the pleasure of purchasing diminishes with possession , in other words, wears off until you go shopping again. I am not advocating shutting shops to save us all from bankruptcyany more than shutting pubs stops people drinks GN, but is it really necessary to " boost the economy"? At whose expense. Retailers have to cover their costs and show a profit, so the extra staff, store energy etc will have to be paid for. I leave you to guess who will be paying for them.

My iPad is determined to bring GN into my posts

" drinks GN " should of course read drinking

Does that make any better sense? Did you mean gin?

It's all very well saying it would be better for parents to take their children out and about and do things with them, but it smacks a bit of preaching.

There's a whole new generation growing up not having been introduced to the delights of the Science Museum and kite-flying, but that's just the way society's gone. Not much we can do about other people's way of life, we can only try to teach those nearest to us as best we can.

There has always been a large section of each generation that has not had the benefits of science museums or whatever their equivalent before science museums (books, perhaps?). But still the proportional size of the educated middle classes grew. I suspect that we don't actually know that this trend has stopped.

I am not (unlike some) given to " preaching -honest!! I just sometimes see these young families out on a Sunday in our shopping centre ( sad place) and compare it with the way DD and SIL make a point of taking the DGCs out to the country, the donkey sanctuary, or to ride on steam trains, ride their bikes and scooters, go swimming or swing from ropes in the trees and think how privileged they are.
I think Eloethan has said it so well.

^ stops people drinking^

Does that not make sense, Ana?

The iPad, curse of mankind, changes everything I want to say.

Drinking gin sounds ok to me, especially with a slice of lime and some tonic.

Oh, I've got it now, Alea!

When I was a child, I used to dread Sunday's, it was always a dead day somehow.It's much better now, but shops closing at four or thereabouts seems alright.

It'sh better now ? is it the iPad or is it the gin?

Creepy how the iPad associates drinking and gin with GN
So often it turns what I want to say into total gibberish, which may of course be an improvement

I agree with thatbags.

Alea why not just be thankful that your GC get to fly kites and so on and stop worrying about children going around shopping centres.

My GC do both as it happens.

Also even those children you consider to be deprived will be stimulated at school at least.

OK I admit defeat. None of my business what other people feed their children's bodies or minds.

"Shop till you drop."Fine by me
But why have a discussion if opinions are not welcome?

I often think that myself Alea

petallus Does it mean that because you feel your own children/grandchildren are OK that you shouldn't be concerned about other children?

I don't think anybody is suggesting that people shouldn't go to shopping malls (though, in my view, they are pretty characterless places). I sometimes go to Westfield and Lakeside myself when I need to do some shopping. I appreciate the convenience of not being out in all weathers, not having to negotiate busy roads and having shops all in one specific area. However, they are not places I would habitually visit as a "leisure activity", whether on my own or with children.

Some people actually make shopping their "hobby" and are less likely to engage in more traditional family activities. I think it's reasonable to express the view that children would probably enjoy and gain more from other more active pursuits. It's not "preaching", any more than expressing a view on anything is "preaching".

It is one of those questions that can be viewed in so many ways.

To say Museums, science parks, garden centers etc are surely favourable places to take your family for a day out rather than shopping also means there are staff who are working on a Sunday whilst their family are at home to keep such places open , so Sunday working will apply to somebody somewhere at any one time.

I have a friend who chose to work Sundays at Morrison's as she could cover school duties mid week and use her parents less for child care, hubby took over on the weekends she was on duty. It didn't seem to bother them as he bonded well with the kids as he became a dad who cooked, played and entertained his kids. Other dad's could work Monday to Friday and go to the pub, football, play golf on their Sunday off.

My daughter worked at Morrison's and Birmingham Airport when she was a student and was very glad of the hours she was given, including Sunday working , to pay her way through uni.

If you go on holiday do you say I have a principal that I will not fly on a Sunday as I don't agree with people having to work Sundays. If you travel on a Sunday do you say I refuse to fill my car up as it's Sunday and I don't believe the petrol station attendant should be home with her family.

Someone is always working Sundays somewhere . Some are greatful for the chance to earn a wage.

I am not trying to argue the point, just adding another view.

Nobody has said, or even implied that certain views are unwelcome, alea. Some people have recounted their different views and argued against what they regard as over-judgmental attitudes.

I think the thread reads as a good discussion. I don't have a problem with any of it even though I continue to think that some of the views expressed in it are judgmentalism disguised as concern.

I daresay some people are reading my views as expressing lack of concern.

Do I care that people might think that? Nope.

Surely your latest posts could be judgementaliism disguised as lack of concern Bags?

thatbags Petallus made the comment:

Alea why not just be thankful that your GC get to fly kites and so on and stop worrying about children going around shopping centres.

By suggesting that Alea concentrate on her own children and grandchildren, doesn't that come across as telling her to mind her own business?

We make judgements all the time. Looking for meaning in the world and making value judgements is an inescapable part of beimg humans, but that is not necessarily the same as being judgemental.