Concern within the Labour Party that Jeremy Corbyn is doing well

They say the true is stranger than fiction Annie and I think your story would be a lot better than many I have read.

Jen The idea of some intense training for those who lack some of the basic skills - which is what I think this is meant to be - is not necessarily a bad one, but why the "boot-camp" headline. There will be some who don't want to do it but most want to work and this may help. Yet again the right's use of language to divide society leaves a lot to be desired. Must make the government feel big and clever though.

I'll have to dig out my biography of Jenny Lee, and see if you are in it!

Just watching News 24, and tomorrow's newspaper review, and James Rampton said exactly the same about Brown, that if he hadn't bottled it against Tony Blair, he would have won.

By the way, while Labour are arguing about who is going to lead, the Tories have decided that the young unemployed will have to go to boot camps, as if they have broken the law by being young and unemployed.

Gracesgran, I have letters from Hardy to g Grampa and correspondence between grandpa and Paul Robson ,also g grandpa's diaries covering the start of the Labour Party , they are in the bank and this is were my vanity comes in, a photograph of me as a little one with Ni Bevan and his wife Jennie Lee

I do hope you have written you memories down or recorded them Annie. Family history is always fascinating but yours ... it definitely needs to be recorded in some way.

I am sure you are right about Brown. In another time things may have been different. I hope he gets a great deal of fulfilment out of his life today.

POGS, I understand you saying he was pointing supporters to the least favoured but I don't see it as that, he spoke as a party member with great knowledge of the party's history and yes Corbyn is the candidate who fits the bill but I didn't feel he was saying don't vote for Corbyn , he wouldn't do personal. He keeps that for the Tories . I am sure the other three must have prayed he would have come out as a supporter for one of them, if he had that would have made it personal

Gracesgran, yes I am fortunate, it started with my g grandpa who was a close friend of Keir Hardy and though a baptist minister was politically active through the injustice of the poverty in South Wales, this relationship with the Labour Party continued down the generations , I was so lucky to hear Ni Bevan speak on the hillside in his constituency, South Wales was the birth place of the Labour Party, Merthyr my home town was Keir Hardy's constituency , and my Grampa , father and uncles active in the miners union

I think if there had been an election for leader Brown would have won and the party would not have moved so far to the centre. Oh if only Brown had met Sarah earlier but he didn't so we got Blair . Much of the rubbish about Brown was spread from the blair groupies , a relative was a Welsh MP at the time , that damn Machiavellian Mandelson and Murdoch ,grrrrrr.

Jen, I wish you could have shared the experiences with me but what matters is we work now to get the party strong , I know we will gain power again, I speak of power in the same context as Gordon did today

It was very obvious what he meant. But as most on this thread are so dismissive of anyone connected with 'new labour', of course Gordon Brown's message must be either misinterpreted or ignored.

Anniebach.

I will agree with one thing you said.

'Today he was fighting for the party, not any one candidate'

That doesn't mean he was not pointing supporters toward who he thought was the least favoured of the candidates in his opinion.

Sometimes you hear a message just as loud and clear without a direct word being spoken. Indeed silence is can be just telling in some circumstances.

Crossed posts, Gracesgran.

Quite like to have that history, Anniebach. I'm quite jealous.

Anniebach you have lived though history. I wonder what would have happened it that election had taken place.

No. He knew what he was saying, and how it would be interpreted.

He wasn't confused.

Gordon Brown has kept a low profile since being ousted djen except for weighing in to the scottish referendum campaign and making promises he couldn't possibly keep, not being part of government, then claiming that those promises had been kept in full.
He seems a bit confused nowadays.

Oh, I'm sure there will be some excuse. 'Compassion' springs to mind...

they will ignore it I'm sure, but I would have serious worries about supporting a leader who befriends such organisations.

roses, I think he virtually said as much in one interview.

Jen, I first met Gordon Brown when he was a young MP in the eighties, he came to Cardiff with John Smith , Neil Kinnocks constituency is close to where I live , that area is where Ni Bevan, Michael Foot were also MP's so I was fortunate to meet and listen to these men. I was set on voting for Brown as leader when John Smith died but there was no election for leader, as you know. At party conferences I heard him at fringe meetings as well as from the stage. I have never met a politician so intense on welfare of children . I know John Smith favoured Brown as did Dewer. I put Brown in the top group of my list of trustworthy MP's and do think if he had been more for self than the party he may not have backed down for Blair . Today he was fighting for the party not for any candidate , he and Sarah devote their lives to the welfare of children and the number of children in poverty now must be agony for him . I also met him through the anti apartheid movement, Peter
Hain also had his constituency in South Wales and Peter was prominent in this fight

Well of course they do, they just don't want to talk about it.

Perhaps he just thinks that they are 'misunderstood' and are lovely people really.

Hezbollah and Hamas...... Does everyone who thinks Corbyn is marvellous know about his liking for terrorist organisations I wonder?

It was evident who Brown was eluding to in the parts of his speech which spoke of the opinion polls and the 1 'grouping' that is most likely to get the most votes (Corbyn) is the 1 group that even it's supporters say is the least likely to be able to form a government then we have to look at 'the lessons of our history'.

His mention of Hezbollah, Putin, Hamas and Hugo Chavez shouted loud and clear who he was talking about. Corbyn has made no secret of his Marxist roots, he is known for his strong friendship/regard for the likes of Hezbollah and Hamas, most view them as nothing more than terrorist organisations. Or am I mistaken.

As for Tom Watson he is marmite. Wasn't there something about Falkirk?

The difference is, Annie, that I haven't had anything to do with Labour since Tony Blair took over.
I liked Gordon Brown, and thought he should have been leader after John Smith died. I liked his history lesson today. I also admire the fact that he has kept a low profile since he was ousted, but has done lots of charity work, with Sarah's help.
Tony Blair started the cult of the young photogenic ones.

Same for me thatbags, I trust him

I shall try and watch it too. I've always had a lot of respect for Gordon Brown. I think he is a fundamentally good man. Doesn't mean he's necessarily always right but I think of all politicians I probably trust him the most.