The Left's way forward

Government majority for the welfare bill -184.
Labour MP abstentions - 184.

This has just come on to my Facebook page from the Lib Dems with the message "Be part of the real opposition - Liberal Democrats".

One of Labours biggest mistakes is that they're never been good at publiscising the things they have done that are good. I've said this for many years and it hasn't changed over that time. I can't help but feel that the things this Government are doing because 'they need to be done for the sake of the country' are helping a lot of rich people get richer .

None since the Blair/ Brown Government.

www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/07/21/revealed-how-osborne-will-hammer-the-working-poor

Is this the job that needs to be done?

What good policies do you see in the Labour party, roses?

I see some good policies in all Parties, but as Anya says, the Conservatives
Are doing a job that needs to be done etc.

Simply that Tim has been chosen because his ideology is more left leaning than some in the Lib Dems.There are quite a broad spectrum of people in the Party .

What does left leaning mean to you *rose"? Quite interested as you are a Lib supporter?

That surprised me too whitewave.

First of all though the Labour party has to establish a philosophy, a narrative and firm principles. This hasn't yet been achieved.

Yes, a good post Anya.
I wish there was someone "waiting in the wings" with the charisma of eg, (dare I say) Bob Crow, or Jack Ashley, neither no longer with us. A strong character is needed to unite the different factions.

Actually, reading the last post, doesnt read quite as how I intended it to in my head.
I didnt mean to dismiss the Labour party or the Communist party. More that their influence becomes muted.

It is ok to become inconsequential. The Communist party in this country became inconsequential. But meanwhile the Conservatives may go too far right.

I agree with much of the last few posts.
I would go even further than some, and say that Labour are in danger of becoming inconsequential at some point if they persist in looking leftwards.

What does left leaning mean to you *rose"? Quite interested as you are a Lib supporter?

Good post Anya, and one I agree with too.The only thing I would say is that any Government, no matter which party , needs a strong opposition so there can't be a year or so of infighting in the Labour Party.
Nick Clegg did a great job in the last five years, but the party itself won't forgive him and others, which is why a left leaning Lib Dem has been appointed leader.They will likely be out of power for a long time.

To everything there is a season. As it happens this is not the time for a Labour government. No matter who had led Labour into the last election the mood of the country was such that they would have not done much better that Ed Milliband.

In the meantime there is a job to be done to put the country back on a sound economic footing, reorganise the welfare system and tax dodgers, and tackle extremism. This is what the present government is committed to doing. If they succeed they may well be re-elected for a third term.

Meanwhile Labour has a breathing space to examine itself. All this self examination in full public is not altogether damaging. At least the party is not sinking into oblivion as is the LibDens. Whosoever is elected this time round is very unlikely to be electable, to become PM, this was recognised by far stronger candidates which is why they didn't throw their hats into the ring.

There are those waiting in the wings who will step forward, probably after Labour loses the next election, and these are the ones who will have the capacity to lead Labour into government, by which the Tories will have make themselves unpopular and be searching for their new leader.

As I said, to everything there is a season.

The Lib Dems are out of 'power' because the Conservatives targetted a lot of their seats at the election [this is what Nick Clegg said and I believe him]. All parties go through a period of readjustment after an election defeat; it's just a pity that both Labour and the LibDems are going through it at the same time...makes for a very unhealthy situation. I honestly don't think that there's any left wing gransnetter on this forum that won't praise any good policies that this Government put forward if they feel that people, in general [and not just a small minority] will benefit from it. And I like to think that the reverse is true also.

Nothing has become personal.

The same old simplistic nonsense is trotted out time after time.Four legs good, two legs bad.
I am a Lib Dem supporter, and was hoping for another coalition with the Conservatives, but a lot of Lib Dems would rather be out of power doing nothing it seems. It was their one chance to actually do something.
The Labour Party is imploding because some of them actually think they are not left enough! Being blinkered to the good that is in each party is crazy IMO.
the Conservatives have actually borrowed some of Labours ideas, but instead of people ( on this forum) being pleased about this, they are up in arms.

Things shouldn't become personal.

We can differ perhaps Nightowl, but certain other people on here sadly cannot.

Well I wouldn't go quite that far roses

Just because I don't agree with the basic principles of the Conservatives doesn't mean I think they eat babies. Nor do I think Labour in their present form will save us, or anybody for that matter. I don't know why you're getting so wound up about it. Surely we can agree to differ?

It's politics Djen, all that sitting on the benches/ abstaining etc.They are doing what is best for them, the Labour Party.

I'd like to know what those principles are. Can someone enlighten me please?

Of course you are correct, the Conservatives have principles but all terrible ones!They are out to grind the faces of the poor into the dust, deprive us of all benefits,and there are strong rumours that they roast and eat orphans!
only the Labour Party can save us!Quick, where is that nice Mr Corbyn in his Lenin hat when you need him?
Newsflash! the Conservatives have principles and the Lib Dems also have principles, this simplistic nonsense that only Labour have ' good principles'
Makes me, and I suspect others, laugh.

I watched the debate, nightowl, from about six p.m. to ten, and then half an hour for the two votes. Very depressing seeing the front bench sitting down instead of going to vote against the Tory party.

I need more than a lie down. But I've just made myself a cup of mint tea, instead of the large glass of sloe gin I feel I need. That's because I've already had half a bottle of wine. Sloe gin might be too much.