The Left's way forward

I keep reintroducing JMK to the debate whitewave, at least on here, but very few people are actually interested in the economics.

Soontobe we were never going to be like Greece. We have our own currency and were in a very different place to them. It was just scare tactics on the Tories part.

Economic stability through growth I am never convinced works Soon, in sense there is no such thing as economic stability. You can have a growth economy and a no growth economy. Certainly some very clever economist have been talking about a no growth economy over recent years and whitewave's and my favourite Keynes talked about it way back when.

That said most of us are used to growth both of our companies and countries. The problem with no growth is that while you may exchange additional income for life-style - less hours, etc. - the economy could start to slip backwards.

I would also like a Labour government to find a way to bridge the gap between the rich and poor by limiting the top pay to a multiple of the bottom wage, but I haven't yet worked out what that multiple should be.
Anyone know what it is in John Lewis?

People on a living wage - a proper one, not George's pretend one - will spend their money in this country, not save it.
They will spend it on food, goods, shoes, clothes, all of which can be made in this country. More purchasing means more manufacturing means more money going round the system.

House building will also bring a lot more money with it. It will also build self-respect in those that have been left at the bottom of the heap.

I am talking of reintroducing Keynes to the debate.

Economic stability through growth I am never convinced works. Though I could well be wrong.
[Note to self, read a book about it].

That begs the question, where is the money to come from for growth? And exactly what kind of growth are we talking about?

Are taxes to be raised to finance public projects which will give employment?

What role will the private sector play in, for example house building?

How can we recontruct our manufacturing base?

Or re-engage the young unemployed?

I am soooo glad that the left are now thinking about earning as well as spending money.
It will help save us from becoming like Greece.

It is all very well saying what we would hope for, but it must be paid for.
Assuming that we must address any debt what should the left do economically? In the end nothing is possible without having a rational economic plan

So perhaps one of the points should be something like:-
Economic stability through growth not austerity.

When the north eastern railway was in public hands after it was handed back because the private company could not make it work. it made a profit.
Just before the election it was handed over to Virgin, so they could make a profit.

Why shouldn't a public enterprise be expected to make a profit? And why should it go back into the public purse? But ought to be reinvested in that company.

If, for example, the railways were taken back into public ownership, they should be expected to be self sufficient. And that includes enough of a profit margin to replace rolling stock, update the rail network, maintain stations, etc..

Ditto Water Companies, Energy Companies and so on.

Mine would be
A living wage
A decent affordable place to live
NHS care (medical and social) free of charge throughout life
An integrated Publicly owned transport system

Sorry my last sentence isn't clear. If a public enterprise made an unintentional profit then it should go into the exchequer.

I think your "Re-organise" word would work well vampirequeen. Many people do want to change the benefits system and want to see Labour prepared to face up the need for change to a system that suits the 21st century without pushing people into penury.

So to update my "view" of my Labour Party

* Living wage and a living pension.
* Accessible learning from birth to 22.
* Care, including medical care, free at the point of delivery from birth to death.
* Reorganise the benefits system.

I think times have changed enough now to expect public enterprises to work in the same way as a private company except that prices would not be expected to generate profits for the investors. However any profit that might be made would go back to the exchequer.

I believe that all utilities should be publicly owned, but, in the 1980s I went to work for a public company. Having always worked in the private sector I was horrified at the waste of tax payers money. Something has to change if we go back to those days.

An equal understanding of the private and public sector would be another point for me. Neither is more important than the other.

Just heard all four candidates are in Leamington...I'm off there now on a fact finding mission!

A strong leader would be a good starting point Anya . There is no way I could have voted for Ed Milliband.

Renationalise the NHS and untilities. I don't understand what the difference is between public and private sector workers. All work and all pay tax.

Reorganise education. Not in the piecemeal political way it has been done by previous governments. Speak to teachers at the chalkface not people who haven't been a classroom for years if at all. Think about children as individuals ready to learn not empty vessels to be filled up. What do children need to know e.g. calculation, money, reading, writing etc? How can we stimulate and nurture their natural desire to learn? Do we want a nation of automatons or a nation of thinkers?

Reorganise care for the elderly. Care homes should not be profit making organisations but homes where people can live out the remainder of their lives with respect.

Reorganise the benefits system. Not the soft targets like the sick and disabled. I know some people play the system but it's not the majority. Benefits should not be a life option. I'm not saying people should be left with no money but there were 734000 job vacancies in the UK in April 2015. I appreciate that not all these jobs would be suitable for everyone or in areas they could get to but surely there are people out there who could do some of them. I'm not looking through rose tinted glasses. I know it's much harder in some areas than others. If someone is unable to find work they should do a couple of days of voluntary work each week. There are lots of charities in need of help, lots of pensioners/disabled who need help with their gardens, lots of schools who need people to listen to children read or help with PE etc. I know it will cost money in the first place for DRBs but the benefits will outweigh the outlay.

These are just my first ideas. I know I haven't costed them but we seem to be able to find money for wars so there must be a sink fund somewhere that we can draw on.

Oh crikey Anya a monkey could stand for the Labour party in this town and still win by a MASSIVE majority.

I once stood as a labour candidate in District Council elections Gilly in a safe Conservative council (farming area!). We had the shock of our lives when it went to a recount and I eventually only lost by 10 votes.

There was a candidate standing from that party that did the yogic bouncing (anyone remember them?) and they were lovely and has baked a huge carrot cake for everyone, regardless of politics, to share.

sorry to digress

What would your three or four short statements be that would make you vote Labour next time gillybob? You are the very person they should be aiming at.

I suppose it is marketing really. For instance if I asked you to sum up Marks and Spencer Clothes in three or four short statements most people would find it hard because we no longer really know what they stand for. However, if I ask the same for M & S Food I bet you could do it because we all have a view that tells us "yes, that's M & S Food". Sadly the Labour Party is closer to M & S Clothes at the moment; by trying to be all things to all men (and women ) they have lost any sense of what they actually stand for.

Opposite problem here Anya we have a permanent Labour controlled council who need do nothing at all to gain votes. Our town is not only a "safe" labour seat it is undestructable.

Gillybob I understand exactly where you are coming from. It was touch and go at the last election whether I'd stick with my socialist principles but the corruption at local level by Tory Councillors was the deciding factor.

I suspect Labour lost a lost of their vote for reasons some might find hard to understand though.

I can't go with the 'no austerity' for the reasons you put forward plus it is a negative message. The same idea can be expressed is a positive way by GG's first statement 'a living wage and a living pension'

* They believe in a more federal system for the UK. I see it as bottom up politics Anya. Start with the Council/area, sending power up to the country assembly, up to the UK Parliament with no more politicians and the abolition of the House of Lords.

However, if you have to explain it then it doesn't work so that may have to come off my list. It must be something people feel they understand and can agree with - or not. Just think how many people voted Conservative who would probably say they didn't agree with (as much as) "£12 billion reduction in welfare". They didn't totally agree but they believed they understood what it meant. All the questioning by journalists did not stop them voting for the party that said it.

Obviously you will have to explain all of them over time but you need to have as few words as possible so people can capture the mood. I am sure you could shorten mine - I'm afraid anything I write can always be shortened . So, for instance Whitewave's forth would reduce to "legislate for a living wage".