Were you offended?

thatbags, but to put it bluntly, most gransnetters are grannies and white.
As I said upthread, just because gransnetters in the majority if that is true, dont think that what Cameron said was dehumanising, cannpot be said to be a true representation of the population as a whole.
Living in a gransnet bubble can lead to distortations of life.

What if there are 30 million people who think that what he said was dehumanising the migrants? That is not a majority either. But I think you would agree that that is a huge number.

A debate on gransnet where a majority of just those that speak, thinks one way, is really to be taken with a large pinch of salt.

I thought most of the far right wing Tories had buggered off to Ukip.

I didn't thatbags

A bigger swarm, annieb.

Size isn't the only issue. Disruption of travel between Calais and Kent is a problem too, which I daresay you'd mind about if it had affected you personally.

Which is not a criticism of migrants, just a neutral comment about the problem a mass of people blocking a tunnel.

Indeed.

thatbags migration is always a tough situation for both the migrant and the host countries.
Many governments/ countries have contributed to the situations that make people migrate but this is often sidelined. If countries in the 'west' could work together more collaboratively to support better economies in the 'migrants' ' home countries there may be less reason for war,fewer famines and better education. However the politics of sustainability are not immediately profitable so are rarely taken forward.

I think everyone is at a loss about what to do with this problem, not just here, but all over Europe .Slinging stuff around about what the Nazis did will not do anything to help though, just the opposite.
I feel sorry not only for the migrants, but for the families left where they came from and also for the countries in Europe who are expected to house them, as more and more converge on Calais. You can call it a swarm, because it is now far more than a crowd.

gg, I thought most of the far right wing Tories had buggered off to Ukip.

roses phrase "get a grip" is more succinct and better, really, for what I mean.

If 7% entering this country are a swarm I would be interested to learn what Cameron calls the 40% entering Germany

Thank Penstmmon debate is exactly what I was intending.

rosesarered I am not "Tory bashing* although I can see why it appeals to you to call it that. I am trying to put forward the evidence for what happens when we get parties in power which are authoritarian, nationalistic and right-wing. I do not see the majority of current Conservatives, of which I assume you are actually one, as extreme as this but I do see the seeds of this within the current party and I do see such demonising happening in the past.

This current Conservative party has moved further to the right than it has been for many a long year - not intrinsically bad but, just as the left wing parties have to watch for extremes so, I believe, do the right wing ones.

You come out with statements such as "Iam64 it is completely unreasonable actually." but do not explain why. However, if you have become bored with the debate as you say perhaps others will take the discussion forward without personal attacks on those who do not share their views.

And I only mean extremist within the bounds of acceptable posting on GN.

What anniebach and others don't seem to accept is that the vast majority of posters on this thread don't think there is or was any dehumanising in what Cameron said. It is their right to think differently from the majority but I also think some of the views expressed are considerably alarmist and therefore unreasonable – much more unreasonable than Cameron's use of a word that, by all definitions, can be used of large numbers of people, including neutrally, as most of us believe it was.

One can be someone who doesn't agree with much of Tory politics without thinking they, and Cameron in particular, are absolute demons. I think that's the nub of it to me: I regard some of the expressions, at either end of the spectrum of views on this thread, to be extremist.

I am sure if I have posted anything unacceptable it will be removed rosesarered . I wish people didn't have a need to be bossy

I agree with all of your 0920 post, pen. Through all this migrant story I am left only with a sense of bafflement at the problem. No politician or group of politicians in the UK or in the EU as a whole seem to have a good set of answers. Maybe it's the kind of problem that will always generate uncertainty as to what to do because it is so complex itself.

I've no philosophical objection to the migrants coming here but we don't seem to be coping too well with our current population (everyone, not just immigrants) so I am at a loss.

Penstemmon,am not offended by anything on here..... Just amazed by the nonsense put out.

We are not talking about 'acts of Genocide' here Anniebach, I wish people would get a grip!

roses the person sounding most offended appears to be you. Nobody in the last few posts has done any tory bashing. Posting ideas thiughts and opinions that are not tory policy is not bashing anyone.
Iam was pointing out that personal comments 'that's nonsense GG' can cause offence. Argue the point not the person.

There are a small group on here that are determined to link a word 'swarm' with the atrocities of the Nazis, and therefore smear the Conservatives at the same time, it is completely ridiculous.

Penstemmon, there you go again, not reading posts properly.It was Iam64 that was feeling offended.

But history shows all acts of genocide start with dehumanising . I think bringing the horrors of the Nazi regime is relevant , once we stop seeing all human beings as equal then we reduce a section to sub human

grace did not sound offended roses she is a) not conceding to your opinion
b) re stating and clarifying her opinion.

It is called debate .

Thank you Iam64. I was beginning to feel a bit battered

GG, this was not meant to be yet another Tory bashing thread, but once again that is what it has turned into, how boring.

Iam64 , there it goes, the feeling offended bit again.Sigh.

rosesarered I was not talking about Nazis, as you put it. I was comparing the outcomes of the use of language as a way of diminishing and demonising various groups.

In fact, what I was referring to was "an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization" and these parties have occurred all over the world it is just that the fascism in Germany is better documented and understood so it makes a simpler example.