VJ day

I know, and I don't mean to sound so aggrieved. For some reason Japan gets to me more than Germany and yet it was Germany that widowed my mother! Perhaps it's the lack of acknowledgement on the part of the Japanese, or maybe it's because I watched my beloved s.father get old before his time, suffer endless bouts of malaria, and other health issues, talking to me(an only child) about his experiences after my mother died with such acute distress that it has coloured my opinions and outlook.
I'm sorry if I have been over opinionated and have seemed unsympathetic to the people who were atom bombed in that terrible war. Of course I don't approve of such long term appalling suffering, but if only Japan could have surrendered earlier, or even better, not gone on this crazy adventure in the first place.

The contention of some is that |Hiroshima and Nagasaki were necessary in order to force the Japanese to finally surrender. That may be seen as a valid argument if it were undisputed. However, the link I posted gives historical quotes that remain unchallenged. Many influential experts were quite adamant that there was no necessity to drop the bombs on Japan. It seems people are unwilling to read the evidence, preferring to blank out all the information that has come to light over the last few decades.

I remain of the opinion that the US wanted to try out their bombs and they were aware that the majority of people would be persuaded that it was a necessary evil. If the aim was to save innocent lives, why was the bomb not used on Germany when it was known that hundreds of thousands of people were being herded into concentration camps, forced to work and then gassed once they were too ill to be of any use? (Not that I think such a move would have been any more acceptable).

Nigglynellie, it's sad both your fathers died , awful for your mother to suffer the loss of two husbands but this was not the fault of the thousands who suffered horrific deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and nothing justifies testing nuclear bombs . I do understand why you are so bitter , I suffered a loss through brutality when a gal.my first love - and most will know how precious this is- was a S A priest, a good,gentle young man, one day he was seeing the sick in a township when he saw a white police officer urinating on a little girl, David threw himself over her body, he was arrested and imprisoned in Petoria prison, he was in a ground floor cell, was found dead, his body covered in bruises , his internal organs badly damaged, cause of death? He tripped on a step. True cause of death? He was black South African . David Cameron supported a company who was against sanctions in S A , when questioned as to his all expenses paid visit to S A he dismissed it - it was just a jolly ! Not for David or his parents though . I know this is off topic but just trying to explain man's inhumanity to man regardless of nationality and what dehumanising people does, you are dehumanising those innocent children who died at the hands of us in the west

No need to apologise nigglynellie, that's what the forum is for... Opinions.
where the U.S. Is concerned there are always conspiracy theorists.
We do seem to going round in circles though, and as ever, it is only our own opinions formed by our own reading on this subject, which can vary widely depending on the author. I think we are all agreed though, that the effects of the bombs in Japan were terrible.

I think we are all agreed on that rose, and with that I really am bowing out from commenting any further on this thread!

Possibly they did not consider using the bomb until after 8 May 1945 when Germany had surrendered From this time distance it is difficult to know all the subtle ins and outs.
When you look at the relative size of the two countries it seems insane that Japan did start a war with USA. But of course had that not happened the outcome in Europe may have been different and could have dragged on longer.
War of any sort ruins the lives of innocent people who become embroiled in events around them. The pictures of such total destruction in Syria and other countries on the Arab peninsular is just crazy in this day and age. What started out as a protest escalated fast and spread like a bush fire. If those people who started the whole thing had any inkling of how it would progress I am sure they would have thought more than twice about it.

On the other hand, maybe the war in Europe would have ended earlier if our fathers had not had to be sent to India or the Far East and had been able to stay and fight in Europe.

I have heard that the dropping of the bombs on Japan was delayed until the allies knew that Russia was going to be on their side. Hirohito was still hoping that Russia would support Japan.

It wasn't just us and our troops in Europe though - and we cannot keep on surmising and wondering if - we can do nothing now to change any of the outcomes of previous conflicts and are better concentrating on trying to ensure our own safety and keeping lines of communication open with as many countries as possible so we can talk rather than take to fighting.

My kind, gentle father who I never heard say a bad word about anyone was on the Burma railway & in Changi jail. He came home weighing 5 stone after 2 months on a ship- he was 6' tall.
He never spoke about his terrible experiences until shortly before is death at 74- except once. I had just read the Day of the Bomb- I was about 14 I think & I was raving about how awful it was for those bomb to be dropped & he very quietly said to me that if those bombs had not been dropped I would not be there to read about it as he would have soon died & I wasn't born until 7 years after the war ended.
That really shocked me & brought it home to me at a very personal level.
Yes it was terrible but so was the behaviour of the Japanese.
I don't believe there was any alternative & I have read extensively about it.
I often think about my poor grandmother when the VE day celebrations were taking place- still not knowing if her only son was alive or how he was. Just as well she didn't know I suppose.
Yes- awful - yes- inhuman but in response to extreme violence & provocation so unfortunately a necessary evil in the long run.

Was the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent people fair compensation for the suffering of your father? I do understand the suffering of the POW so sm not unsympathetic to the horrors your Grandfather endured . Were those children guilty of the crimes of an army ? Do you consider all Germans during the war guilty of the atrocities in the concentration camps?

GrandmaH, Your post mirrors my own feelings, except of course I'm several years older than you. I was reading last night an account of the Rape of Nanking. In the end I had to stop, it was just too distressing to continue. Bearing in mind that this behaviour became the norm for the next ten years, whether to POW's or conquered civilians, it is easy to see that everyone became desparate for this madness and horror to end, particularly after the horrors of the war in Europe. Of course children weren't responsible for these atrocities, but I think we also need to remember all those other murdered children, thousands of them ,of the countries Japan attacked, maybe a memorial for them could also be appropriate, but I don't think anyone remembers them or their terrorised parents as Japan has never faced up to its past as Germany certainly has, not teaching it in school, somehow pushing it away. Even the Emperor in the end was turned into a benign gentle old man who clearly had never in his life hurt another living soul!!!!! Other, now benign, old men have been sought and punished for their part in that period, but not the Emperor of Japan- I wonder why not?!!! Hardly surprising that some of us directly affected feel perhaps just a little cynical.

The numbers of civilians who had already died or been humiliated at Japanese hands or as a result of the Emperor's policies was enough to cause a wish for revenge among vast numbers of their families and friends at that time. Would it be surprising if that had some influence? Bereaved people are not made of stone, or models of forgiveness and forbearance.

The decision at the time was to drop the bomb and shorten the war and prevent any more horrors. Statements that Japan was about to surrender and cut it short anyway, or that they would have surrendered given a different choice, made either now or then, are just conjectures. To use the fact that they did get different terms is to use hindsight in place of foresight.

They were not of a culture that would surrender when they could still fight on. There could have been a stalemate that went on until the last Japanese soldier was dead (and there were isolated pockets of Japanese many years later who had not heard that the war had ended and were still on the alert), plus as many Allied servicemen and a lot of civilians.

It took an unequivocal demonstration that they were beaten to make them do so. The concession of different terms was after the bombing, probably in recognition of just how awful the result turned out to be.

It was a dreadful weapon. So was a fanatical and ultra-obedient armed force who are willing to die rather than lose face.

What else could have stopped that war? The Japanese Emperor was a god - and the best of people will do terrible things for a god they serve with fanatical devotion - as gods tend to be...

I do not understand the last part of your post, niggly. Emperor Hirohito died in 1989. He cannot be punished for his part in the war.

No way was it right to drop those bloody bombs! Anyone who can't see that is unfit to be called a human.

Doing that far outweighed atrocities committed by the enemy - horrible as they were.

It was a shocking business from start to finish, and from the view point of 70 years along the line it's hard to know people's attitude apart from the fact that after years of world wide appalling suffering and countless deaths, it had to end and quickly. Invasion would have cost countless lives and caused terrible suffering on both sides, POW's would almost certainly have been murdered to the last baby, the Emperor himself issued that edict. The Soviet Union had declared war on Japan and were planning an invasion from the North, with all the suffering that would have entailed. Would that have ended with Japan cut in half like North and South Korea? Or the Americans and the Soviets starting round two? It doesn't bear thinking about. Being invaded by the Soviets would have been a fate worse than death for the Japanese, ask the people of Berlin!! It just had to stop and stop quickly, and as the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last man standing, which was quite incomprehensible, I just can't see what choices there were.

In your opinion Jingl. only in your opinion.

And, on this occasion, my opinion is RIGHT!

There is no other way.

Think about it. Think long and hard.

Imagine too, how those aircrews must have felt, when they turned their planes round and realised what they had left behind them.

In that case you have to say all war is wrong Jingl, and that we should never have tangled with Hitler, causing all the horror of the thousands of deaths from bombs raining down over London and other cities.There are many pacifists who still think this.It's a point of view, but not everybody's point of view.

I don't care about the historical ins and outs. Or the 'would have happened'. It was evil and unforgivable.

A point of view ( iPad again.)

As was the Blitz?

Pointless going over this over and over really, it's all opinions.