VJ day

And we can forgive those who acted as, in retrospect, we wish they had not.

The past cannot be changed but we can learn from it Bez and we can choose to say what we think of as past actions to be proud of and past actions to feel sorrow and shame for

We have a number of Dutch friends (my father is buried in a Protestant Cemetery in that country with his six companions) whom we have acquired over the years, and they have told us of how horrendous the German retreat from the Netherlands was, fighting every inch of the way, what they couldn't plunder they destroyed so that in the end Dutch were literally starving. I've been shown, and hope to acquire a copy of, a photo showing a Dutch small girl, laughing, and waving with both arms at a Lancaster Bomber that is dropping food parcels. A symbol of hope in.a war torn landscape. The anti German feeling which we have always been aware of, unfortunately when we visited last year, is among some people both young, but particularly the old is as strong as ever, which I found somewhat depressing. But of course we were never invaded, we didn't live in terror of the knock on the door, the arrest in the street, so perhaps it is less easy for us to understand how people who were continue to feel. One thing though it really can't happen again.

Hear! Hear!

Etiquette was about writing particular words in capital letters - nothing to so with the content of the post.

The war with Germany had been over for three months before the bomb was dropped and the Germans were obviously going to surrender but as I mentioned before it did not stop their retreating troops committing other atrocities as they retreated across a country they had already wrecked over a number of years - of which some things have never been replaced - such as railway lines.

We all agree that the children should not be involved in any wars but they are caught up in them - more women in governments are likely to have the effect that there are less wars and problems resolved by talking but that will not help the past. There have always been war lords over the years and the UK had its fair share before unification. We cannot now change what happened but just aim to keep our country safe and protected.

Oh dear, it was all so dreadful. Apparently the Germans were attempting to export plutonium to Japan for the purpose of creating ' the bomb'. The submarine carrying this cargo was sunk and the war ended anyway. Germany itself was well underway to creating the bomb, it was just a matter of time and I think we can safely say that Hitler and probably the Emperor wouldn't have hesitated to use it!! But again the war ended and the German scientists ended up in the U.S.!! So much suffering, but a good outcome for some!! Bit like topsy turvy land!!
Nobody then was fully aware of the long term effects of the atom bomb. This is born out from the tests in the 50's in Nevada and Christmas Island when people participating didn't wear protective clothing, still unaware of the consequences of not doing so. Years along the line some of these died of the after effects that by then were well known, and any testing well regulated on the safety front.

I assume they did not know that they were going to be bombed so horrifically, as not even the Americans knew what was going to happen until the day.
We tend to forget how poor communications were in war zones in those days.
My dad was a despatch rider in France before Dunkirk. He had to take messages from one commander to another on a motorbike.

But not from Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it seems, or not all of them.

Yes. About 8.5 million people, children, old people and mothers were evacuated from cities to the countryside after the first US attacks in 1943.

Of course the children were important. All children are important. How many more children would have died before the deaths dragged to an end?

British children were evacuated from vulnerable places during the war to keep them away from bombing. Did Hirohito the god-emperor instigate evacuation of his Japanese children?

The Japanese did get a warning that something far greater than had been used before was to be deployed against them, and it would be very possible that they had heard a rumour of the bomb research through their intelligence service (I don't know whether it was as efficient as the Germans, but they must have had something). The high heid yins chose to ignore it. Death before dishonour! for their women and children too.

So those children were unimportant?! I too despair!!

P.S. The Japanese military were warned, the fact that they chose not to protect their own civilians and continue to fight, was not the fault of anyone else but them. .

>>>despair<<<

Of course it is wrong to kill children, but what you can't seem to acknowledge is the fact that thousands of equally important innocent children were killed deliberately by the Japanese military through no fault of their own; their only crime was to be in the wrong place at the, wrong time, and be the wrong nationality, long before there was any suggestion of dropping that bomb. All I'm saying on that subject is that it might be appropriate, for their suffering and that of that of that of their families to just be factored into the equation as to why the bomb was dropped. . No one is asking for a big jamboree, as of course they have all been conveniently forgotten or airbrushed out of this period of history on all sides, and while I know it is fashionable to lambast America for all our ills, at that time there was another side to this appalling saga, and while I know it's a hard pill to swallow, the Japanese did actually start this conflict, and however much you try to gloss over Japanese atrocities, they did happen without any provocation from anyone, and I think that does have to be taken on board when discussing these events, hideous though they were.

i'm getting off this thread now. Bad enough this happened in my lifetime. I can't dwell on it.

At least in the blitz the poor sods got a bit of warning. This dreadful horror came literally out of the blue in a split second. All that was left behind was complete and utter devastation. And the 'survivors', with skin burnt away, and constant vomiting. A slow and unimaginably awful death.

People can write what they like and how they like so long as it is within gransnet rules.
No such thing as board etiquette.
And no such thing as someone's viewpoint is more important than someone else's viewpoint.

Sod fucking forum etiquette. A subject like this, and the rules go out the window.

Bez, why is it against board etiquette for Jingle to state her beliefs the bombing was wrong but not for those who think it was justified?

I find it possible and acceptable to have concern and sympathy for all who suffer, be they prisoners of war or thousands dying long lingering deaths from the evil that is nuclear warfare, I don't reserve compassion for one side or another . Perhaps the bomb should have been dropped on the USA because of the suffering they inflicted on the innocent in Vietnam? Or the UK for killing thousands in Iraq, why wasn't it dropped on Germany to end the war? Because it would have caused deaths of Europeans and god forbid that should happen . America had decided to use the bomb before Germany surrendered, they had a trial run but not in their one country , we all know God lives in the USA

I know for sure and certain that it is wrong to deliberately kill children. And that, together with the obvious wrongness of using such a weapon against humanity, is enough for me.

Just insisting you are right is a far more narrow way of thinkingJings - you need to keep up with forum etiquette !!!

Good post nigglynellie. I'm not defending the indefensible but for pity's sake, how can it possibly be acceptable to have sympathy only for Japanese civilians and none for those who suffered at the hands of Japanese military? One of my close friend's fathers was an officer on the burma railway. He was a lovely, gentle man who worked tirelessly for his family and wider society before and after WW2. Just before he died he spoke for the first time about his experiences as a prisoner of war. I don't need to go into detail, we're all aware of how badly they were treated. He said he thought about those experiences every minute of every day, and dreamed of them every night. His worst nightmares were about the choice the camp commander had him make, daily, which men were fit to work on the railway and which weren't. On one occasion when he told the commander that no men were fit to work, he was severely beaten and spent several days in one of those cages.

(I think emphasis is right. Have been out to dinner. With wine) [cross-eyed emoti)