Is it offensive to tell a woman that she looks nice?

Eloethan - I wasn't aware I had casually dismissed the idea of a 'sleaze bag'. I put it there to indicate that if what she alleges is true then the interpretation she seemed to be implying was a man wanting a bikini photo of her before considering her for a placement. That is of course totally wrong and she should, and I hope did, report him at least to her school. I just embroidered the scenario a little. It is a long time since I have done an interview but I am pretty sure candidates are still weeded out according to the quality of their answers to specific questions designed to detect whether they are fit for the job. For the law being easily persuaded to a course of action or not making good judgments can mean the wrong people being convicted or justice not prevailing. Again, I embroidered somewhat because a firm interviewing a candidate would elicit such information far more formally through the interviewing procedure by a series of tasks and advocacy exercises. She was obviously successful in these.
You are quite right of course to point out that all offers of employment should follow the same rules for everybody and everyone involved should behave at all times in an appropriate manner or suffer the consequences.
I hope for the young lady's sake a line is drawn under it soon and she can move forward in her career. She does of course have recourse to legal action if she feels she has not received a satisfactory response.

Devorgilla If the scenarios you suggest re the request for a bikini photograph were used to judge the character of the applicant, it would show a complete flouting of employment law and, if revealed, would I am sure be very poorly viewed if a civil action was pursued.

The way you casually dismiss the idea of a "sleaze bag" perhaps wanting a photo he can ogle is astonishing to me. Such a person would be guilty of gross misconduct and would, I believe, be immediately sacked - and rightly so.

I saw her too on Newsnight and felt it was a 'damage limitation' event. I think if she had asked for and, received, an apology from him on her professional site she should have left it at that. Being told your photo is 'stunning' is hardly the worst of sexism by a long way. In future I would advise her to stick to purely professional images on a professional site. Men do. I don't think she should have pushed for a public apology for this 'offence'.
As for a firm asking for a 'bikini' shot I think this could have happened but needs to be looked at from all sides:
1. A sleaze bag wanting a photo of a nice looking girl he can stick in the top drawer with the others and ogle over morning coffee;
2. A ploy by the firm to see how far a candidate will go to get a placement - i.e. are they prepared to use their sex for unfair advantage?;
3. A ploy by the firm to get a sense of her judgment. Send the photo and your judgment is rubbish:don't send the photo and it's a 'we want you' situation.
I was concerned about her losing briefs because of it as I felt that was perhaps sexist. However, I spoke to someone who works in law and they said it was more likely that firms would now question her judgment which is all important in legal cases.

I saw her on Channel 4 News. I thought Carhy Newman gave her a really easy ride. It wasn't made clear that the initial exchange was by private message and that Charlotte had publicised it on Twitter.

Impressive people can still be socially inept and socially uncompromising. In my experience they often are. It's probably part of the reason they are impressive academically and professionally.

well said (again) Eloethan. I saw Charlotte Proudman on tv interviews yesterday and don't share the negative views expressed above. Impressive young woman who has got caught up in a media storm and seems to be dealing with it as well as any of us could expect.

Eloethan: your first paragraph seems to show exactly the sort of person she is: impressive! I hadn't looked her up and don't think Mr C-S could have done with or he wouldn't have tried to patronise her!!

If you look at her professional profile on the Chambers where she is employed (which shows the same photo), she appears to have achieved a great deal in a relatively short time, including an MPhil in Criminology at Cambridge. She has published articles in several newspapers, including The I, New Statesman and Guardian, was "instrumental in the criminalisation of forced marriage and was voted Human Rights Barrister of the Year 2013.

I agree that she did look pretty serious on Newsnight and did not portray the "fluffy" sort of image of women that we frequently get on TV.

As this incident has attracted more and more coverage her photograph has been described as "flirty", "smug", "provocative", "glamorous" - but now there is a complete about turn and this has changed to being "po faced" and lacking in humour. She didn't come across as a particularly warm or sociable person but we don't know her and what's that got to do with it anyway?

I saw her on Newsnight. Unbelievably po-faced for a woman of her age who has presumably come across sexism before and dealt with it appropriately - or perhaps she's led a very sheltered life?

I saw her earlier on Channel 4 News, Alea. She did herself no favours there, either. I didn't totally believe that she was asked for a 'bikini shot' by a firm of solicitors. I don't think they would dare.

Off topic really but did anybody see Charlote Proudman on Newsnight yesterday?
She came across as if she had rehearsed her replies to Evan Davies's questions, not a glimmer of humour or even individuality. Sad for an intelligent young woman to sound as if she is just trotting out pre learned cliches. Didn't do herself any favours.

She was talking to friends casually on FB. Mr C-S was a total stranger to her.

Facebook is a social forum - not a professional one.

So it's all right for her to ogle men on FB but not to receive a compliment from a man she clearly wanted to be LinkedIn to. Such obvious hypocrisy, does she think sexism only works one way!. What a very silly and arrogant young woman who has surely 'shot herself in the foot'.

' the legal profession is notorious for it's sexism' Is it?. I would argue that it was Ms Proudman who created this fuss and that Mr C-S should have been a bit more PC. If she wanted to be noticed she has certainly succeeded in doing that.

Sorry I meant her response to A C-S was irrelevant to the causes.

While recognising that Charlotte Proudman is doing very worthwhile work for the causes of oppressed women, I don't think that excuses her response to Carter-Silk's behaviour, nor do I think that it furthers any of those causes.
Luckygirl I agree with you about a father's approbation being important to a girl's self esteem, but it's rather different telling her she's beautiful to telling her she appeals to him in a sexual way.

Fathers expressing appreciation of their DD's beauty is a good way of them feeling comfortable with being appreciated by the opposite sex, as it is in a safe context. There was once some research done which showed that girls who had a good relationship with their fathers were less likely to have a teenage pregnancy.

Men are always saying I look nice - I just take it in my stride!

I think it likely that he fully understands why Proudman thinks what he did was worth pasting on the internet.

I don't think that reacting to remarks like his with cool calmness reduces the case against domestic violence, slavery or FGM a single jot. Nor do I think that tackling him privately by LinkedIn messaging and with cold politeness would have been 'putting up with' his behaviour. I've always found it pretty effective myself and, as well as putting a stop to the arrogance that needed challenging, it had the effect of my gaining the respect of the person to whom I retorted precisely because I hadn't publicly humiliated them.

Public humiliations are uncivilised like public executions.

I see it from this perspective too Eloethan. This is a woman who has fought against some of the worst things that can be done to women. The misogyny against women, both by men and women, often not conscious of the way they have been persuaded that "this is the way of the world" or "it's always been like this", etc., all of support the idea that putting men in a powerful position over women is right.

"Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, belittling of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women."

As you say Eloethan she could have used the words thatbags suggested. I probably would; I am not as brave as Ms Proudman. However, do we really think this would make this man, or others with his sense of entitlement, have any understanding of why what he did is wrong. We are pretty lucky. Even if we live with men around us who subconsciously see themselves as superior just because of their sex and women who contribute to this view we are unlikely to end in a forced marriage, we will hopefully not suffer domestic violence, domestic slavery or have our genitals mutilated. This is the sort of thing this women is and has been fighting against as a barrister and I can only applaud her for both this and (probably after many such remarks) standing up to the small things that allow situations like this to continue.

This sort of behaviour isn't just about two people. Since this incident came to light, many women - and several from the legal profession - have come forward to relate their experiences of similar, and much worse, behaviour from their male bosses. And the deluge of disgusting and threatening responses that Ms Proudman has received is indicative of the way some men view women.

She could have sorted it out "privately". Perhaps he would have reflected on the wisdom of making such non-professional remarks to a woman he didn't know. Or perhaps he wouldn't have. Most women are very reluctant to take issue with senior male bosses, or even male colleagues, for fear of being labelled "difficult", "over-sensitive". etc.

I am very grateful to Ms Proudman for making a stand. I hope one day when my four year old grand daughter is an adult she will not have to put up with this sort of arrogant male behaviour.

She put it on twitter.

It looks to me that she replied on LinkedIn, I can't see what is wrong with that. I wonder how many other women he has commented on in an unprofessional manner.

She is a barrister, I would want someone who is as gutsy as her to represent me.

She could easily have said the sort of thing I suggested and told him to sod off with his sleazy remarks. What I'm questioning is whether she had any right to publicy name and shame him over something that could have been very easily sorted out between the two of them.

I wouldn't trust her professional discretion as a lawyer after that display of childish "telling tales" behaviour.

Yes it has all got silly baggy how dare she tell off some sleazy man.

She contacted him first, via LinkedIn, is the story I understood was correct, faye. As I said above, she could very easily have responded to his comment in a way that would have prevented any more such by agreeing that it was an exceptionally good photograph, naturally, as she'd had it done professionally for her professional LinkedIn profile.

She would have been 'sticking up' for women more effectively that way, by using her intelligence against what she regarded as his stupid remark. As it is, she replied in kind and it all got silly.