The National Anthem

Leaders of political parties must sing it, and especially at services like the one yesterday.

rosesarered just at first glance at the pic on the front of the DT, 2 women in posh hats and 1 man in uniform seem to have their mouths shut too. It is not an unusual thing during the National Anthem. I feel we have become much more hung up on what things look like, we'll be expecting the "hand on heart" position next like they do in many countries.
What's that quote about Pharisees? I am sure soontobe can help out.

I would rather the media focused on the "big stuff", today's PMQs for instance.

When I say must, it is not for me, but it is part of his job as representative as the head of his party, if he doesn't understand this, he won't be able to do the job.IMO he does understand it though.

This seems to be the modern equivalent of beheading or hanging, drawing and quartering which, at one time, would happen to someone who didn't agree with the sovereign's religion to me. Now we have death by media.

Does this mean that we cannot have a democratic republican as an MP?

The last verse of the National Anthem is:

Lord, grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.

I imagine many of the Scots Nats would have a problem with the National Anthem too if they were asked to sing it all the way through.

Perhaps the National Anthem - in a country which is largely not committed to Christianity and has a sizable minority who are, at the very least, ambivalent about the monarchy, particularly after this queen - is out of date rather than Corbyn being out of step.

Perhaps it's time that we had a new 'national song' rather than one that celebrates the sort of imperialistic attitude that can inspire man to fight man? The ceremony is meant to praise those brave souls who fought, not for one privileged person but the persecuted who needed help. [I'm not anti monarchy, by the way; rather fond on them in fact, but have never really thought about it before].

crossed posts; you said it a lot better than me GG !

No I didn't definitely not - two views are better than one and, as we crossed, this view was obviously due

Hell bells, we have had to put up with a Pof WALES who chooses not to sing the WELSH national anthem ,

Far less hypocritical than John Redwood miming the Welsh anthem, and with such a daft look on his face. respectful silence would have been preferable.

I agree with roses. I thought it was disrespectful considering the occasion. He is now the leader of a major political party and whether it goes against his principles or not, there are certain things he should conform to. He can't just do what he likes.

2. O Lord our God arise
Scatter her enemies
And make them fall
Confound their politics
Frustrate their knavish tricks
On Thee our hopes we fix
God save us all

This is my favourite verse - with a heartfelt "God save us all"!!

As a Scot, I prefer to draw a veil over verse 6, though if it could somehow be adapted to Nicola Sturgeon . . . . . .

Alea, surely singing to a deity who doesn't exists for the majority of this country is hypocritical ?

Just because something is "traditional" doesn't mean that it is necessarily right or that everybody should support it or adhere to it.

I believe it was in 2009 or thereabouts that the queen, allegedly because of health and safety concerns, had to abandon the "tradition" of servants and visitors walking backwards when leaving her presence. Some dyed-in-the- wool traditionalists may have considered that change to be "disrespectful". My feeling is that imposing the indignity of having to walk backwards out of a room shows enormous disrespect for "ordinary people".

I also think it is unreasonable for citizens, including public figures, of a supposed democracy to be dragooned into singing the praises of a monarch because to do otherwise risks them being labelled "traitor", "disrespectful", etc.

Sing to your hearts content monarchists but don't impugn the character, patriotism or general worthiness of others who choose not to.

Alea, surely singing to a deity who doesn't exists for the majority of this country is hypocritical ?

Really? The majority of people in this country are atheists?

Isn't it about time we had a new anthem? One that is about the UK not about an individual?

Perhaps it could be an audience participation event - like choosing a song for Eurovision?

Long overdue Ana

Remembrance Day should be interesting!

Also seen on twitter this morning was 'Since when did the national anthem become a 'singalong?'

Time was when we stood in respectful silence as it was played (or trampled each other in the rush to get out of the cinema before it started).

We all know that JC is a republican; would he have been slated for hypocrisy if he had sungalong?

I feel as though some people are thinking fitness to lead an opposition party includes a requirement to demonstrate conformity to what the 'establishment' thinks is 'right thinking'...

What is - the takeover of atheism?

Take your point Annuebach but how many people utter "OMG, God help me, God only knows" etc without a second thought .
My point is neither political nor religious, in fact, rather lamenting the move in our society that you have to wear your heart on your sleeve to prove you've got one.

I think Annie was replying to me????

Alea, surely singing to a deity who doesn't exists for the majority of this country is hypocritical

This is what I was replying to, albeit after a bit of a time lag (otherwise know as actually doing something)

I don't particularly like the tune or the words of the National Anthem; but that is immaterial. It is OUR national anthem and it is for patriotism that it is sung - not really to celebrate God or the Queen - whether you believe in either.

The point, I think, was good manners - he could easily have been muttering "Rhubarb, Rhubarb" for all I care but appeared to sing. It is definitely a criticism of his manners nothing else.

Big difference between OMG and speaking to a God asking for help if one doesn't believe that God exists Alea

I have no problem with his not singing the National Anthem, but I have to say I was surprised to see that he appeared to have got dressed in the dark! Did he not look in the mirror before he left home.

I know his normal attire is casual but there are times when you dress to reflect the occasion. My usual dress is jeans but if I had been at that service I would have dressed appropriately.