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Jeremy Corbyn Elected

(539 Posts)
rosequartz Sun 20-Sept-15 20:42:59

As jinglbellsfrocks had the last word in the last thread about Jermy Corbyn, I am starting a new one.

Do you think that the election of Jeremy Corbyn has scuppered Labour's chances of winning the next election or has it revitalised the party?

rosequartz Thu 24-Sept-15 19:33:01

I recorded it, can't watch it at the moment as the RUGBY is on hmm

Gracesgran Thu 24-Sept-15 19:21:55

Last nights programme was fascinating. You could see just how easy it would be to take everyone out of extreme poverty and for (comparatively) little money.

rosequartz Thu 24-Sept-15 19:21:10

djen grin

But I still don't know what the weather's going to be like .....

rosequartz Thu 24-Sept-15 19:16:56

Mostly due to inflated house prices. which means absolutely nothing unless we are forced to downsize!

durhamjen Thu 24-Sept-15 19:14:29

www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_yrAD69fLQ

TriciaF Thu 24-Sept-15 09:17:53

A few weeks ago there was a report about the increase in the number of millionaires in the UK. Up by 41% in the last 5 years, to one in 65 adults now.
Mostly due to inflated house prices.

rosequartz Wed 23-Sept-15 18:38:18

And if that happened would I be worse or better off?
Would I have to hand over my house, my engagement ring etc, to even out the 'wealth'? hmm

It is said that there is a great divergence between the very rich and the very poor in this country.
But there are an awful lot of people who are somewhere in between.

Penstemmon Wed 23-Sept-15 18:29:53

If the slate was wiped clean and every person in the world had the same amount of regular income I guess it would not be very long until it changed because in different places different commodities and services are scarce/plentiful and thee are natural entrepreneurs, charitable beings, greedy bastards and clever/stupid people!

janeainsworth Wed 23-Sept-15 18:18:31

I doubt it STB.
Georgiana, Duchess of Devonshire accumulated gambling debts of the equivalent of nearly £4million.
As Wikipedia puts it,
'At her death[in 1806], she owed the equivalent of £3,720,000. She was so petrified of her husband discovering the extent of her debts that she kept them secret; the duke only discovered their extent after her death and remarked, "Is that all?"....'

He had plenty of money to pay off the debts, and then some.

soontobe Wed 23-Sept-15 16:46:35

From time to time, cities of previous third world countries, are shown on tv programmes.
And quite a lot of them say, these cities have started to boom since 20 years ago.

I would have to disagree though about the extremely rich.
In years gone by,some people were Lord of the Manor or whatever. I would imagine that their wealth, in many cases, was a lot less in comparison to those with a lot of wealth now if you see what I mean.

thatbags Wed 23-Sept-15 11:03:48

The average person in Thailand is better off than the average person in many other countries, so it isn't simply a race "to the bottom". A step or so lower, maybe. As people have said, that's how it works. It's probably how it's always worked and probably always will be. In economic terms, some jobs simply aren't as valuable as others or, to put it another way, they can be done by more people so the competition for them is greater.

thatbags Wed 23-Sept-15 10:59:32

So although there is still great inequality of income, poor people are less poor than they were, which is good. I think it matters what rich people do with their wealth too; I don't think it's automatically a bad thing that some people are extremely rich. The Gateses, for instance, use their wealth in good ways. Not all rich people are greedy bastards who don't care about others poorer than themselves.

If the poor are becoming less poor as time goes on, which apparently they are, then we are doing something right even with fierce competition.

thatbags Wed 23-Sept-15 10:53:46

ourworldindata.org

thatbags Wed 23-Sept-15 10:53:07

There is also lots of information about how things are improving all over the world here: worldindata.org

thatbags Wed 23-Sept-15 10:51:16

Here you are: programme on tonight based on research by Hans Rosling and team. BBC2

thatbags Wed 23-Sept-15 10:47:17

Apologies for the misinterpretation, eloethan. It is rather easy, isn't it?

I don't agree that industrial competition is a race to the bottom. Poverty is decreasing across the world as we speak. I'll look out a reference for that.

rosequartz Wed 23-Sept-15 10:13:55

It's not just the steel industry, though, is it. It has been happening for years.

For example, Dyson moved to Malaysia:
www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/2860995/Dyson-production-moves-to-Malaysia.html

And just how many manufacturing jobs have been lost to China and other countries - and how greedily do we purchase the cheaper goods?

You can't ringfence one company and ignore the others.

Eloethan Wed 23-Sept-15 10:00:18

thatbags You said: "People need jobs in Thailand too".

Please don't misrepresent what I said, which was:

"unfortunately we don't have a system whereby countries work together to make a better world for everyone. We have brutal competition, with countries competing with each other to pay the lowest wages in order to extract the highest profits. Given that is the way things are, I don't think the majority of Britons would be so generous as to say "never mind about our jobs - the Thais need them more than we do".

I wasn't being "anti-British". I wasn't suggesting Britons are wrong in thinking that way, I was just saying - as you said - "that's how it works".

Was it necessary, because I made some points with which you disagreed, to make the comment about "negative thinkers"?

You say that fierce competition (which leads to what is commonly known as a "race to the bottom" in terms of wages and working conditions with the consequent impact on people's standard of living) is "not anyone's fault". Is it just a happy coincidence (for them) that half of the world's wealth is owned by 1% of the world's population?

www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/01/the-worlds-85-richest-people-are-as-wealthy-as-the-poorest-3-billion/283206/

thatbags Wed 23-Sept-15 06:43:35

Seems you have the same problem, eloethan, in assuming I meant something anti-British when I said Thais need jobs too. I didn't say "never mind about our jobs" (your interpretation). I'm sorry it wasn't a clear enough difference for negative thinkers.

On the other hand, if a Thai company owns the company where the jobs are available, it doesn't sound to me as if the jobs are "ours" anyway even if they were once.

And the level of poverty in Thailand is higher than here, so maybe they do need the jobs more than we do. Please note the word maybe. I am suggesting something as a possibility and nothing more.

You mention fierce competition. Well yes. That's how it works. Not sure it's anyone's fault.

POGS Wed 23-Sept-15 00:07:21

It was written about in the Guardian and other papers too.

POGS Wed 23-Sept-15 00:05:22

Durhamjen

You must have missed the Parliamentary Steel Debate which took place last week 17th Sept. It was brought to the house by Labour MP Anna Turley/Redcar.

I know you read Hansard and watch Parliament 'live' as you have mentioned doing so on other threads so you know how to look it up. The recording of the actual debate will be on line somewhere no doubt. It was a good debate .

If you read Hansard you will note this point is made .

EU State Aid rules expressly forbid the government from giving any money to rescue or restructure a steel company in difficulty. EU State Aid rules for steel permit support only
for research and development, environmental protection and training, and only then within specified limits.

I think you you might find all the answers to your questions and those of other interested posters spoken of and answered in that debate as figures, dates, the dealings of the last Labour government and this one etc. etc. are all spoken of by intelligent, knowledgable MP's from all parties who debated.

Worth a watch!

durhamjen Tue 22-Sept-15 23:54:06

nhaspace.com/2015/09/18/lets-all-bash-corbyn/

rosequartz Tue 22-Sept-15 23:34:52

I don't suppose the Greeks have seen a cent of this either:
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/greece-wants-germany-to-repay-279bn-it-was-forced-to-loan-the-nazi-authorities-during-wwii-10159738.html

Eloethan Tue 22-Sept-15 23:24:10

Well, of course thatbags Thailand needs jobs too. But unfortunately we don't have a system whereby countries work together to make a better world for everyone. We have brutal competition, with countries competing with each other to pay the lowest wages in order to extract the highest profits. Given that is the way things are, I don't think the majority of Britons would be so generous as to say "never mind about our jobs - the Thais need them more than we do".

I looked at the EU site to find out what the position is on subsidies. I found it quite confusing since it seems some sorts of payments can be made but there are strict conditions. I expect it works a bit like our tax system where countries do their best to devise schemes that circumvent these restrictions. It seems that agricultural subsidies are an exception because they are provided to all countries so presumably they do not give an unfair advantage to one country over another (but presumably these subsidies provide an unfair advantage to Europe over developing countries).

I am torn about the EU. On the one hand I think it provides a set standard of health and safety and consumer and employment rights across its member countries, which I think is a very good thing. On the other hand, it is difficult enough for people to get their heads around how our own government and local government systems work without adding to that the very complex structure of the EU. The EU has, in my opinion, behaved disgracefully towards Greece - with Germany in particular buying up huge swathes of Greek publicly owned infrastructure as if it were a fire sale. Add to that its inability to recognise that introducing a common currency to countries with very different economies would cause problems, its complete inability to work together to try and deal with the refugee crisis, and the masking - by way of "quantitative easing" - of its financial crisis, and I am losing what little confidence I had in the arrangement.

Sorry, I've gone off the point.

rosequartz Tue 22-Sept-15 23:11:03

Spelling! Duh!

and became