And so it begins.

Who is conning who nellie? - I am not sure I fully understand your post. Are you suggesting that the exodus of refugees is an IS-inspired plot?

Oh how I wish there were an edit button 'sectarian' in the last sentence should, of course, be 'secular'.

Why has this descended into an anti Muslim rant ? If we are talking of the impact of refugees from Syria arriving in our country then we should be aware that they cannot all be lumped together as Muslim. Syria in the recent past has had a predominantly Sunni population ruled by a minority Shi'ite (Alawite) regime. There are significant other religious or cultural minorities - Assyrians, Kurds, Druze, Ismalis, Christians (13% of the Syrian population are Christians mainly aligned to the Greek orthodox tradition) and others. The minorities have swung back and forward between supporting the Assad regime and the rebels a particular issue being the conscription of all their young men into Assad's forces to combat the rebels. Add to this mix incursions from IS, ISIS - call it what you will - and you have an incendiary situation and multi faceted civil war, which will escalate over time until the country is ruined.

It appears to me that were I and my family Syrians, then I would feel that we had no option but to leave the country of our birth for the safety of 'elsewhere' fleeing for our lives and the future of our children. If it were impossible for the whole family to leave then regretfully we would send our young men away as they are in the most immediate danger, particularly those from ethnic or religious minorities. Just as many from NI, Catholic and Protestant, uprooted their familes to escape from the euphemistically called 'troubles', unfortunately some brought their sectarian divisions with them, which still persist though to a much lesser degree.

How I long for the day when we have a truly sectarian society, instead of one riven with division and strife by those who claim to worship the same 'loving' God.

Even JC knows that IS cannot be talked to at the moment.

There was a R4 programme a couple of nights ago about the children who came over alone on the Kindertransport during WW2. Many experienced considerable prejudice and racism.

Nothing happened to it, Lullydully. It's still here.

www.oneworld.org/news

The mixed feelings around this issue are just typical of average normal human beings. This makes the negativity towards refugees a) to be expected and thus b) predictable. Very careful forward planning was required but its all just been firefighting and damage limitation: neither very effectively either. Oh Frau Merkel what have you led Europe to?!

Whose human nature?
Why do you assume that the bad will always happen?
We tried to bring our children up to think the best of everyone, and they are doing the same with their children.

I said before, I do not mind being called a tree hugger if it makes the world a better place for others. There should be more of us.

Realistically, it's never going to happen! Human nature gets in the way everytime for good, and sadly for bad. Always has, and undoubtedly always will. All you can do is the best you can with what you've got.

THEM and US. HERE and THERE. What happened to one world politics.

I could kiss you,Nellie.

I don't think any more tree hugging is the answer!! I think that could be some of the problem! as previously said we are an extremely tolerant nation, (who else would queue for hours without complaint?!) and it is often this very tolerance that leads us wide open to be taken for a right old ride, in more ways than one. We really have got to come into the real world, and see things for what they are and not always as we would like them to be, kidding ourselves, when it's as plain as the nose on your face that we are being conned, even to the detriment of our own citizens.

Whitewave , I agree with you entirely . The thread has taken a nasty turn !
As for The Daily fail !! and someone`s reference to treehuggers what a lot of bigoted nonsense

durhamjen post 1024am
Visiting the area regularly
Talking to people who live there
Knowing people well who live there
Used to live there

All ways I can think of at a drop of a hat in which you can get information without living there or relying on tv or newspapers.

I don't accept that their faith is under constant attack. The British are a most tolerant people and I defy anyone to tell me otherwise. Who has told Muslims they cannot build their mosques, or pray in them, or establish religious schools, or wear their traditional dress? We tolerate their culture and their reluctance to integrate and perhaps it is this very tolerance that has engendered in them a propensity to look upon their culture as a special case, beyond criticism, censure, and due a respect it doesn't deserve and in a lot of cases, hasn't earned!

But sadly jane10 women are being forced into these medieval throwbacks in parts of our world.

lucky yes I do agree. Young unfocused undisciplined men always need careful policing, whatever faith, cultural background they are from. Education is the best way. They need "western" classes about the culture into which they hope to live. What to expect, what is accepted practice in our society, our tolerance, and how not to antagonise their hosts.
However, I think what needs to be give serious consideration is the possibility that some young men are from the more radical element and may be IS sympathisers. These folk need to be returned to their original home.

There are plenty of people of other faiths who have moved here are and don't seem to pose the same risks as the those with an Islamic background. Jewish people, Sikhs and Hindus don't seem to have a problem with both identity and peaceful assimilation.
In my time in Bangladesh I met a lot of lovely people and had great chats about our different faiths. We agreed on most of the basic tenets. These were delightful people. There's something about the combination of bored unfocused young men that always leads to trouble: football hooligans, far right groups etc etc. Young men seem always to be looking for a fight. This situation has provided a golden opportunity for them.
BTW It was very noticeable in Bangladesh that the women there didn't feel compelled to cover up at all. They were so beautiful in their lovely brightly coloured saris or salwars with long flowing hair. They were actually contemptuous of those women who did cover their hair. One explained to me that it was a medieval throwback to the days in the desert and is quite uncalled for now.

Fear breeds intolerance. But ignoring problems is a danger. There must surely be a middle way.

I'd like to see any group of men who would dare to tell the hen parties in our town to cover up. They would be lynched. These girls choose to wear very little and are sometimes shocking, but that is their choice and they are entitled to dress however they like. Men who told them to cover up would be met with a torrent of abuse.
petra where are these communities which are predominantly Muslim and no-go areas for the police? I have never heard of any.

Greyduster, is it any wonder they can't find an identity? Born here but because of their religious faith not accepted as British , their faith under constant attack , let's not pretend we are tolerant of their faith, we are not.

I really dislike this tendency to lump a whole group of people together and claim that they all think and behave in the same way. Some of the comments on here do nothing to bridge some of the differences within our communities (which do exist but which I believe are not insurmountable) but will only inflame resentment and negativity on both sides.

If you view and treat people as if they are "a problem", they will become a problem. We see the same with those children who are continually being criticised and who, as a result, become estranged from mainstream society and who go on to live up to the negative label that has been assigned to them.

I have just finished reading "I am Malala."

Malala's father (renowned for his liberalism and support of girls' education) was in his youth tempted to become a jihad: “...life on earth was short and there were few opportunities for young men in the village........so heaven with its seventy-two virgins sounded attractive. Every night my father would pray....please make war between Muslims and infidels so I can die in your service and be a martyr.” This from a man who later risked his life (and indeed his daughter's) to speak out on behalf of those oppressed by the taliban. He also supported the introduction of sharia law into Swat because he thought it would satisfy the taliban and stop the terrorism under which they were living.

These disaffected young muslim males have many pressures on them to head in the wrong direction.

I will not grind on again about my views on fundamentalist religions - I do not think my views can be in any doubt!

The local muslim communities in the UK need to get a very clear message that they have a responsibility to guide young males and incoming muslim refugees in the direction of understanding of western culture (itself imperfect) and of the true tenets of their own faith. Perhaps this could be their jihad - fighting ignorance and fundamentalism.

Perhaps because you stand a better chance of meeting and talking to someone from a different ethnic group . Then you realise humans are more similar than different.

I find it hard to believe that people of the Muslim faith are not disaffected, and born here. Some of them. I cant see how that can be said at all. In the slightest.