'Is Britain racist'?

Now that we are discussing the issue, DJ and GJ don't seem to want to take part.

I'm glad this is all being talked about openly, perhaps it will stop some of the fear of being accused of being a racist if we are all more open.

What happened in Rotherham and in Birmingham schools was allowed to continue because some were frightened of being accused of racism. It is understandable but not excusable. I doubt there are many countries as tolerant as the UK but we should not allow that tolerance to go so far as to allow such things to go on.

Did anyone else read a week or two back about the judge who gave a longer sentence to someone who sexually attacked a Muslim girl because she would be more traumatised than a non-Muslim by the event? That didn't seem fair to me.

Oops, I had forgotten all about that! I assume that's one unemployed shop assistant?
Just racism, or was Oprah perhaps also doing that sleb thing of looking like her cleaner in her casual gear?

My mum and my father's cousin, Lillian, went into a very posh shop on a pouring wet day, once, looking like the proverbial "drowned rats" and were given a frosty reception by a snooty assistant. Not best chuffed, they went back a few days later in their glad rags, fur coats (well that was back in the day) and bling and got quite a different reception

It was all over the media, including the BBC

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/oprah-winfrey-victim-of-racism-in-switzerland-billionaire-told-she-cant-afford-expensive-handbag-at-8753660.html

What is the Oprah thing?

I think that Sepp Blatter is Swiss, is that what you mean?

(Showing my ignorance here) No, what about Oprah? Was she a tax exile or something?
Roger Moore and Sean Connery are, aren't they? Is taxation lower in Switzerland?

That could stir up a hornet's nest, judging by some of the reports on the internet!
And remember Oprah?

Will you mind if we comment on Switzerland?

Granjura, I always thought that you were Swiss? You can still comment on Britain of course, even if you're not keen on it.

In my case, I am British actually, although not born and bred here- and the relatives, neighbours, colleagues or other people who have said this to me, are all indeed British, born and bred, lock, stock and barrel

On that basis, my late Mama was also British, naturalised, by marriage or whatever and lived in Scotland for 50 years Fromm her twenties until her death.
But however much she tried, what was "bred in the bone" was stronger than her attampts to integrate. She never quite "got" Britain with all its foibles. Was disappointed when trains didn't run on time, supremely intolerant of litter, useless at a cricket match (but darling, when does it actually begin? She once asked my father half way through an innings). She tried too hard to get things right (not very British)didn't understand "muddling through" or " mustn't grumble" and never really got the British sense of understatement -or of humour for that matter.

Actually, there is a cross over, because the Britain First group went to Rotherham to hand out newspapers to all those who wanted them against Muslims because of the grooming that happened in that town.
The march was good, 200 protesters flanked by 700 police. Two weeks later there was a march by all the residents of Rotherham because of 7/7, all groups together, at least a thousand, no violence, which there was by the Britain First group.

GJ could I respectfully suggest that, for the sake of your blood pressure, you go easy on these TV programmes itemising the ills of British society? First racists, now paedophiles, so much righteous indignation cannot be good for anybody's BP.

petra, I am watching the programme on the systematic abuse of kids by British peodophiles in very high places, who were systematically protected by the judicial and police system in BRITAIN. Does that make Brtiish culture and Christianism automatically 'culturally' wrong- because of the abuse perpertrated by some- especially in very high places, including the highest political echelons, and Churches- where they were protected? Exactly the sort of stuff which could be misused by some groups to discredit the whole of British culture!

We should NOT allow any groups to break basic British law, whomever they are. To imply that those who commit crimes like peodophilia and grooming are Muslims, is totally false and biased.

Are you watching Panorama on the subject, including the likes of Leon Britain and others in high places.

The phrase itself doesn't make sense. Alright. I'm being a pedant.

Did you invent it yourself?

Joelsnan. Once again, spot on. That's exactly how I think. I couldn't care less what the colour of your skin is. It's some cultures that I find offensive.

Of course they have chosen to live here, and as such they have to follow the rules of the land- I totally and absolutely agree. And in return we have to respect the aspects of their culture which are legal. No question.

You are mixing several things here.

And no, whatever the other issues, criminal activities against UK law must NOT be tolerated, at all. And mixing this with other issues does not help, at all.

Now a programme on grooming and sexual grooming and rape of children- all VIP peodophiles from the top echelons to British Society. What about all those Catholic priests, and the like of Saville- all protected by the system? Two wrongs will never ever make a right- but the grooming of girls by Muslims is no better nor worse, because they were Muslim. All peodophiles who groom and rape kids belong to the same vile criminal group. We never sas those British vile peodophiles are Christian do we- unless they were Priests, in which case it is so clear it can't be avoided. Nobody would say they did this 'in the name of Christianity' would we?

Granjura
Those ethnic groups have chosen to reside in the UK

No, because they would not be a crime where they come from it would be part of their normal cultural practice I.e. FGM, treating females as chattels and to be forced into early marriage, consanguineous marriage discriminating on class, colour place of birth etc.etc.
Yes we say most of these practices are crimes based on Brit sensibilities, but some would counter this as being racist or in some instances anti Islamic when it is not it is anti-negative-culturalism
I can in some way understand the concerns of some of those who live in towns with a high immigrant population seeing their communities change so drastically often retrogressively in such a short time, This is not unique to the UK though, wherever there is rapid immigration there is tension and concern.

The programme's eye-catching title asked the wrong question. At the literal level Britain is not racist because it has comprehensive anti-racism laws.

Are many Britons racist? Probably, and they are not necessarily all white. You should have heard the Chinese proprietor of a local restaurant complaining about the "Asian" parents at his daughter's school.

And it exists at many levels: e.g. the rabid xenophobia favoured by television producers, the casual racism of unthinking comments made in front of or about people of other races, and the almost subconscious reaction to people of different races (or otherwise different) sparked by those synapses apparently featured in the programme.

But this does not mean that "Britain is racist", any more or less than France, Germany, or anywhere else with anti-racism laws can be labelled as a racist nation. Programmes like this one may be valuable in reminding us (I take it as read that none of us on Gransnet is racist) that there are attitudes still to be challenged and minds to be changed, but they don't prove anything.

Joelsnan, has anyone here, or on the programme, said criminal activity should be allowed, be it by Catholic Priest, Senior Government politicians or Jimy Saville and the like- or Muslims, or anyone? Criminal activity, including forced marriages and fgm, etc, are totally unacceptable of us all.

We have a much better chance to eradicate those if we do not alienate ethnic groups by rejecting them rather than work with them. Pushing them to the limits of society does radicalise them in many many ways.

Obviously things like witchcraft, or fgm, should not be allowed.

But I was really referring to the phrase itself. "Negative culturalism". Wouldn't just "crime" do?

Jinglebellsfrocks
Because some of the cultural practices would be deemed as retrograde or abhorrent to the sensibilities of the indigenous population.
Do you consider that the indigenous population should enable the continuation of such practices by groups within the British communities?

Of course every single news item, film, documentary, press article, is edited. And we all have to use our judgement and ask how and why. However, it could be argued that you can't do that if you choose not to watch in the first place. We also need to be aware of bias- for instance i'd say that Fox news and the Sun have particular bias- and perhaps BBC3 another. We need to balance this in our own mind, of course. And I'll be totally honest in saying, that on balance, I'd rather trust the BBC than Fox News, or the Guardian and indeed the Times, versus the Sun or the Daily Mirror.

Ana, quote : what circles the non British relatives of some posters mix, where people are talking in disparaging way about immigrants and the adding 'not you of course'.

In my case, I am British actually, although not born and bred here- and the relatives, neighbours, colleagues or other people who have said this to me, are all indeed British, born and bred, lock, stock and barrel.

Well, programme finished- and it was seriously concerning- especially the attempt, like Liberty GB, to give a clean and sensible image (totally failed btw) to fascism- and distance themselves (again big fail when you heard how some of their members spoke and behaved) from the EDL and BNP. I hope some watched- your choice. But anyone who seriously believes that the rise of the far right, especially disguised as lambs- is not truly concerning, is imho, deluded. Here too, and all over Europe too and the USA.