Tory welfare cuts will impoverish 200,000 children next year and more than 600,00 in 2020

I have said bank holidays can be deducted, seems I go unread , no matter

Now , home James, and don't spare the horses, but do have a care on the drive (way) you ruined the new Cotswold gravel last time
rosesarered I will go off to bed lol - in fact rofl

As someone who has to present planning applications to The National Park I assure you a parking area or a short entry to a garage is not a drive

So why not consider the principle.
If it's okay to take £200 a month from a single parent doing a job teaching your grandchildren, is it okay to take £200 a month from anyone else?
Is it okay to take £200 a month from your pension as well? After all, some pensioners get more than some people working full time.

It's wrong Jen and cannot be excused

I expect public sector workers get Bank Holidays on top of their 28 days entitlement

It gets very complicated if you work part-time or job-share, as you only get a pro-rata part of a Bank Holiday and it depended which part of the week you worked with a job-share. And we didn't get 28 days holiday either, it was 20 rising to 23 after 10 years service if I remember rightly, but that was pro rata too.

Only teachers get really long holidays, but as my BF used to say, they have to do some work in the holidays.
Support staff, as Maggmaybe says, are not entitled to the long holidays.

Perhaps they are reducing the pay but paying the same every month so they have a regular income throughout the year even when not working.
Or perhaps they have been mistakenly overpaying them for years!

Almost all workers are legally entitled to 5.6 weeks' paid holiday per year (known as statutory leave entitlement or annual leave). An employer can include bank holidays as part of statutory annual leave. Self-employed workers aren't entitled to annual leave.16 Sep 2015
Holiday entitlement - GOV.UK
www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/entitlement

As someone who has to present planning applications to The National Park I assure you a parking area or a short entry to a garage is not a drive

sod it, I am not as posh as I thought with a drive and a garage

It is a long time since I worked for the Planning Department, can't be expected to remember it all.

If it's okay to take £200 a month from a single parent doing a job teaching your grandchildren
Unless I knew the full facts, I can't say.

If they were paid for term time before and not in the holidays but it is now going to be spread throughout the year, resulting in £200 less per month in term time but pay per month in the holidays that is fair enough.

If it is reducing pay by £200 per month full stop then I cannot see that they can do that.

.rosequartz, the planning dept staff are pussycats compared with the National Parks , if you want a drive your choice , I was only expressing my views on a drive and a drive way

"It's good to know that some of you think it is okay to reduce the pay of people who have contracts. "

"If it's okay to take £200 a month from a single parent doing a job teaching your grandchildren, is it okay to take £200 a month from anyone else?
Is it okay to take £200 a month from your pension as well? After all, some pensioners get more than some people working full time."

It is too late at night to start being hypothetical about something based on something else that I have yet to get clear in my mind. I am going to bed, and I suggest everyone else does too.

and I suggest everyone else does too
ooh, you'll be in trouble .......

Night night

Thanks for giving me your permission to go to bed, Elegran!

Why can some of you not consider the principle of people 's pay being cut?
Of course councils have not been paying them too much for years. They have contracts which are being changed. That's wrong.
If they give different contracts to people who now take up similar jobs, okay, but not to change contracts which have been ongoing for years.

Rosequartz, they are not going to be paid for 8 weeks. For the other weeks they are going to be paid less.

Should they be allowed to claim benefit for those 8 weeks?
It sounds like the equivalent of a zero hours contract for 8 weeks.

Not permission - suggestion. If I suggest a I am not assuming that I am in a position to permit anyone to have one.

Anniebach, you are being pedantic at best about drives, and what planning depts may or may not call them.Words in general use are accepted by everyone, if it leads to your house or garage by the house and you drive down it to the main road, it is a drive.

We refuse to use driveway ( it sounds odd)

After a night's sleep, I have been reading the Cumbrian document again. It is still complicated, but from it I think I see that (in this county anyway) -

Currently they all had 39 weeks working and 13 weeks holiday.

Hourly rate
The current hourly rate is based on working 32.5 hours as their full time hours.
so if they earn
£16830 / 1694.6428525 (32.5hrs x 52.142857weeks) = £9.93123 per hour

In the future the standard full time hours would be 37 hours (Are there children in school to be assisted for those 37 hours? If not, how will they work without them? If so, then they must have been working more than 32.5 hours already?)

If they earn £ 16830 / 1929.2857 (37 x 52.142857) = £8.7234 (not £9.93123 as it was when the full weekly hours were set at 32.5)

Therefore their hourly rate will reduce, but their nominal hours will increase to make their monthly pay the same.

In future people with a full year contract will have 39 weeks working plus 7.6 weeks (38 days) paid holiday - 45.65 weeks. (previously 13 weeks holiday - a difference of 5.4 weeks, not 8)
To work out their pay,
Weekly Hours x hourly rate x 45.6 weeks = annual salary

Which lowers their pay - but it is only one net reduction, not the two separate ones that *dj thought* (no, jen, I am not saying this is a good thing, just that it could be a bit less bad than it first appeared to you)

This is then divided by 12 months so they get the same amount each month.

People with a term-only contract have 39 weeks working and pro-rata holidays depending on how many hours a week they work.

So - someone with 4 years service, working 20 hours a week -
Annual Salary = £16830
Working 20 hours per week
39 weeks working
4 years service

Hourly rate
£16830 / 1929.2857 = £8.7234

Annual Salary
Hourly rate x hours per week x weeks worked plus hols
£8.7234 x 20 X 45.4502 = £7929.63

Gross monthly salary
£7929.63 / 12 (months in the year) = £660.80

I still don't know where the £200 a month proposed reduction comes from as I don't know the figures on which current pay is based.

I cannot see what difference it makes if a teaching assistant has a PhD or Masters; the pay grade is based on the job they do.
And it makes no difference if they are teaching my DGC or not whether this is right or wrong or even true.

Sorry, only read the first page (can't believe 11 pages in such a short time). I totally agree with ceesnan, Ana just wanted to ask a simple question, nothing more or less and a whole load of people jumped to all sorts of conclusions. What is wrong with you all? Do you know her personally? Can you read her mind? I have experienced just such behaviour towards me and found that when challenged such people have no answer.

Not reading the rest for the sake of my own well-being. Fortunately now I'm retired I no longer have to associate with people I consider unpleasant.

Every time anyone mentions poverty, some people ask for a definition and never believe the definition given. In fact they can quite easily look it up themselves, but want to argue about the definition of poverty.

Can you tell me, Nonnie, do you know Ana personally?
Why are you on a thread about politics if you think we are all unpleasant just because we are concerned about people's salaries and benefits being reduced?

She probably thinks that people are unpleasant if they keep assuming that all others are delighted about the things that they are concerned about. If there were less rhetoric, there would be more posters on the political threads.

However, she is also complaining about the fact that there are so many posts on the thread, so many that she cannot be bothered to read them all.
I would not comment on a thread that has gone on for 11 pages without reading all the posts, and I would not comment at all if I did not want to read it all.
In fact what is the point of commenting on a political thread that you cannot be bothered to read it? Or any thread, come to that?

Elegran all counties set their own pay scales since Gove axed collective pay bargaining in 2010, so what you are reading is just about Cumbria.

"Cumbria County Council said it was sympathetic to those facing big pay cuts and was involved in a number of appeals.

It also said the new pay structure would be fairer, with some staff better off under a single-status pay scheme.

But it admitted the change could mean some of the county's 3,500 teaching assistants being worse off."

This was in 2011, and came into force in April 2012. So TAs in Cumbria had already had pay cuts, and are now having their pay cut again.
The reason that lots of teaching assistants are needed is because special schools have been closed, so children that used to be in them are now in mainstream schools, in ordinary classes, yet needing individual attention, which teachers cannot supply as well as teaching the other 30+ kids.
Teaching assistants do tend to be highly qualified, but on half the pay that teachers get. They also do work out of hours, but not as much as teachers.
Councils see them as a way of reducing the pay bill, and who can blame them in these cash strapped times?